यह लेख विचारों और लेखक के अनुसंधान का प्रतिनिधित्व करता है। : यदि आप लिंडा अर्नोल्ड द्वारा 432 हर्ट्ज लेख है जो एक बड़ी बहस छिड़ यात्रा इस पेज पढ़ने के लिए रुचि रखते हैं, संगीत थ्योरी: 432 हर्ट्ज ट्यूनिंग बहस तलाश ।
432 हर्ट्ज। जादुई संख्या हर किसी के बारे में बात कर रही है। यह कहा जाता है, ब्रह्मांड की प्राकृतिक आवृत्ति हो ब्रह्मांडीय चिकित्सा शक्तियों के लिए और हमारे संगीत को दर्शकों की संख्या में लोगों को आकर्षित करने के लिए। बस हमारे मानक एक = 440Hz के नीचे एक अर्द्धस्वर से कम हमारे संगीत ट्यूनिंग द्वारा हम ब्रह्मांड के छिपे खजाने के लिए सीधी पहुँच वादा कर रहे हैं।
वहाँ कई लेख तथाकथित पेश हैं
Fact #1
उपन्यास:
तथ्य:
कि अधिक से अधिक
प्राचीन तिब्बतियों, पाइथागोरस और 1834 से पहले किसी को जानबूझकर उनके साधन देखते नहीं हो सकता था 432 हर्ट्ज को मापने के लिए के रूप में इस आवृत्ति पैमाने बस समय पर मौजूद नहीं था।
संसाधन:
http://hps4000.com/pages/special/sound_history.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second
Fact #2
उपन्यास:
पाइथागोरस
एकतंत्री वाद्य
खुद के लिए सुनो:
संसाधन:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_tuning
Fact #3
उपन्यास:
तथ्य:
Handel
संसाधन:
Fact #4
उपन्यास:
तथ्य:
Verdi का अनुरोध किया है (1859 फ्रेंच के अनुसार उसके Requiem 435 हर्ट्ज के लिए देखते हो
संसाधन:
Fact #5
उपन्यास:
संसाधन: Fact #6
उपन्यास:
तथ्य:
Brainwaves या तंत्रिका दोलन लगभग 1 हर्ट्ज और 70 हर्ट्ज के बीच सीमा और 8 हर्ट्ज या किसी भी तरह से 432 हर्ट्ज की अन्य प्रभागों के लिए देखते नहीं कर रहे हैं। शुमान प्रतिध्वनि विद्युत दोलनों है कि पृथ्वी से उत्पन्न का एक सेट है। उनमें से एक वर्तमान में 7.83Hz के एक औसत और न 8 हर्ट्ज पर प्रतिध्वनित। जो अगर 55 से गुणा हमें एक एक = ४३०.६५ हर्ट्ज देता है। करीब लेकिन कोई सिगार नहीं। पानी के अणुओं अवरक्त स्पेक्ट्रम के करीब अत्यंत उच्च आवृत्तियों की एक विस्तृत बैंड में कंपन कर सकते हैं (90
संसाधन: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_wave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances http://solar-center.stanford.edu/singing/ http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/magnetic_electric_effects.html उपन्यास:
तथ्य:
संसाधन: http://www.wam.hr/sadrzaj/us/Cavanagh_440Hz.pdf उपन्यास:
तथ्य:
इसका मतलब यह है कि धातु प्लेट या पानी के शव देखते हैं कि 440 हर्ट्ज (सिर्फ एक गिटार पर एक स्ट्रिंग की तरह) पर resonate करने पर सुंदर cymatic आकार का उत्पादन होगा
ज्यामितीय आकार खड़े तरंगों नामक एक अच्छी तरह से जाना जाता घटना की वजह से पैदा कर रहे हैं। संसाधन: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Chladni https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_wave उपन्यास:
तथ्य:
विभिन्न पिचों के लिए ट्यूनिंग ध्वनिक उपकरणों की लय पर सूक्ष्म प्रभाव पड़ता है, लेकिन इलेक्ट्रॉनिक उत्पन्न आवाजों को कोई फर्क नहीं पड़ता।
संसाधन: http://www.the-compound.org/writing/classicaltuning.pdf 432 हर्ट्ज सिर्फ दूसरों से अधिक किसी भी विशेष महत्व बिना दूसरे नंबर प्रतीत हो रहा है। एक विशिष्ट आवृत्ति के लिए अपने संगीत ट्यूनिंग लौकिक शक्तियों अनलॉक नहीं होगा, या अपने संगीत अच्छा है या बुरा ध्वनि बनाते हैं। कर कहा है कि, वहाँ कोई नियम या कानून है कि संगीतकारों के एक = 440Hz के मानक ट्यूनिंग के लिए छड़ी करने की आवश्यकता है। गंभीर संगीतकारों ऐसे सभी उपकरणों लय के रूप में व्यावहारिक कारणों के लिए वैकल्पिक tunings का उपयोग करें और निर्माण, संगीत रचना की मांगों और ऐतिहासिक पृष्ठभूमि चाहिए।
एक निजी नोट पर, जबकि में काम कर Polyverse संगीत ,
क्या मजा है, बना सकते हैं और प्रयोग है, और डॉन
स्टैनफोर्ड में खगोलविदों के आसपास ५.९६४ GHz पर सूर्य से सुपर सोनिक दोलनों दर्ज की गई है। वे (उनके पिच बदल) उन्हें धीमा करने के 42,000 बार से गलती से 142 हर्ट्ज की आवृत्ति को हिट करने के लिए किया था - और नहीं 144 के रूप में कुछ है जो हमें फिर से एक = 426Hz की एक आवृत्ति लाना होगा द्वारा दावा किया है।
Fact #7
Fact #8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics Fact #9
In Conclusion
Discussion
It is impossible to build an instrument that vibrates at that precise frequency due to the margins of error in calculation and construction and variations in temperature and humidity, etc.
432 hz is close enough to the comfortable singing range for most people. Nothing is perfect or exact. There is no one magical frequency. The only way to hit such a frequency is to sing Portamento and you will be bound to hit it or the overtones at some point while sliding up and down the scale.
It comes down to what is more comfortable for the singer versus what makes the concert piano sound brighter. Everything is based upon the voice, the primal instrument upon which melody is based, even guitar leads mimic the voice, not the concert piano.
“Tibetan Singing Bowls are specifically designed fo the standards of Tibetan medicine........†where is your source for this?
http://www.medson.net/A432hz-myth.html
They're close, in the 43,300+ to 43,400 or so range, but how much margin of error is acceptable to call it 43,200? But even if we are to assume they were aiming for a 1:43,200 scale, so what? Why does that make 432 special? It just means they chose that number - but why and where is there any evidence of it being a special, or powerful or mystical number? (and in particular why would it make 432Hz special - which no one was measuring sound in "cycles per second" at that time. We must also remember there is NOT 432 of anything happening in a 432Hz sound wave, in the reality of that wave.)
And no, 60 is not "the heartbeat". 60 beats per minute is an approximate average of the low end of the range for a human at rest.... and it's a wide range. Get up and move, even just think about something significant and it will change. And a healthy heart rate has much variability. If it's stuck at or near 60 bpm that is not good.
If there is some grand mystical significance in those Great Pyramid measurements (not denying the obvious earth radius to circumference parallel), then they also point to 440 as being a "special number" since each base side length measures 440 Egyptian cubits.
Maybe the Egyptians were time-traveling cosmic jokers and they saw the nonsense we'd be arguing about in the 21st century so they "encoded" both 432 and 440 in the Great Pyramid just to mess with us!
I think what’s more important than double checking the math is double checking the measurements. Multiplying is easy, but finding the measurements on a structure that has been defaced and who’s original construction predates history can leave some margin for error.
If you don’t want to see any connections you can easily look away, but there are measurements based on original construction that come within meters of accuracy.
Here are a couple things I copy and pasted from actual authors on the subject:
For another example of the accuracy of scientific knowledge exhibited by encoded measures, it is found that the Volume of The King’s Chamber Coffer multiplied by 43,200 Million, Million, Million is equal to the Volume of the Earth to within an accuracy of 99.83%.
The following is a list of conclusions drawn from analysis of the relationship of dimensions found within and without the Great Pyramid :
– A precise definition of the Royal Cubit as it relates to the Earth
– The size and shape of the Earth
– The Mass and Density of the Earth
– The Gravitational Constant
– The Escape Velocity from the Earth to obtain an Open Orbit
– The Escape Velocity from the Earth to obtain escape from the combined Earth’s and Sun’s gravitational field
– The significance of the location of the Great Pyramid
– The Golden Ratio
– The Mass of the Sun
– The Mass of the Moon
– The Mean distance to the Sun and the Circumference of the Earth’s Orbit
– Neutral Points of Gravity between the Earth and the Sun
– The Mean distance to the Moon
– The Orbital Velocity of the Earth
– The Orbital Velocity of the Moon
– The Metonic 19 year cycle of the Moon’s orbit of the Earth
– The Lagrange Point (L1) between the Earth and the Moon
– The Speed of Light
– The Orbital Velocity of the Solar System relative to the Center of the Milkyway Galaxy
– The Velocity of the Local Group of Galaxies which includes the Milky Way Galaxy relative to the Universe
Maybe the builders were time traveling jokesters, or maybe they were trying to encode more.. either way I’m in!! I love a good joke and I love a good mystery
BTW, I just checked my pulse and I’m right at 60bpm... maybe 432 is only magic to me... but maybe changing the frequencies we put out could pull man closer into harmony with nature, or push it away... or maybe it’s all meaningless empty nothingness.. or maybe we’re the butt end of a cosmic joke
I didn't say there were no connections. Between the Great Pyramid measurements and earth etc there certainly appears to be parallels that are sure likely more than coincidence. I tend to trust that those ancients knew quite a lot and clearly they put a lot of thought and intent into the pyramid design. I just don't see any solid evidence that makes 432 a number with any special powers - and certainly not 432Hz being a magical or healing frequency etc - just because it makes for a good math factor that the ancient Egyptians and others may have used. If only they had left some written notes - a guidebook to their intent and purpose!
Regarding the King's Chamber coffer volume to the earth volume, adding the appropriate number of zeros it's actually off by about 46% - so maybe you meant it x2. Still, that makes it about 92% accurate. (91.88% by my calculations based on specs found online), not 99.83%.
Like with the Precession of the Equinoxes, the numbers are often less in alignment than some people claim. The modern scientific measurement for the Precession is 25,772, not 25,920.
Thus, dividing by 60 gives us 429.533, not 432. For 432Hz proponents this just isn't "good enough", IMO.
Your 60 resting heartbeat makes you 'approximately bottom range average'.... though I doubt your mind would be considered as such. ;-)
Have a good evening!
" Tuning your music to a specific frequency will not unlock cosmic powers, or make your music sound better or worse."
this claim is as much unfounded opinion as the pro-432 claims you spend this whole article refuting!
If I would read a poem with a low voice or high voice, would it make magically change the meaning of the poem?
the mathematical abstraction of music — into notes and frequencies and rhythms, these language bits — is a simplification. it can not capture all of music and is not meant to as a map to same scale is not useful. this is why sampling/looping has become its own 'genre' as it contains a complexity that can't be notated or given a single pitch.
the minute you think that a note IS its frequency or that a frequency of sound is only its mathematical value then you make the fallacy that Philosopher Alfred North Whitehead calls misplaced concreteness — you've taken the idea that represents a thing and beloved that idea is the real concrete thing itself.
there has been a shift in education that have moved towards specialization — a lack of broad understanding of the world and a focus on particular areas of study with a bent on technique instead of theory of a particular theory taught without the theory of theory taught. this has led to a rational-materialism that isolates certian fields of learning.
numbers have cardinal value such as 432 being a measure of frequency, but the alps have ordinal value as a single point in a series or a unique place and identity in relation to all other numbers, the 432nd frequency. it's the ordinality where the 'magic' lies. and let me say, if you think the words 'magic' and 'myth' are synonyms for 'irrational' or 'false' then that's clear evidence of my claim that education is lacking in the foundational humanities and moved towards a vocational methodology with a rational-materialistic bias.
I applaud the historical research on 432, but it may be that 432 is emerging in the collective unconsciousness for a reason and people's limited understanding as to why along with intellectual laziness has fabricated these false histories in attempt to bring more legitimacy to the 432 mythos. that doesn't me 432 is not magical or need now or an evolutionary step in man's æsthetic and healing expressions. so please don't shut that notion down simply because you think music Is just numbers. :)
Strange how Pythagoras with his monochord was using frequencies concerning the mathematics of 8, using as a reference the8 Hz (third octave above the starting point of 1Hz, from where climbing some octaves up the ladder we get a frequency of 256Hz, which corresponds to a C in the scale where A has a frequency of 432Hz) for therapeutic purposes... In ancient Greece, as already earlier in ancient China, sound was used as medicine, and not for entertainment purposes as today (while we are (re)discovering more and more the therapeutic sound power)...
Strange how in ancient Egypt they were able to build the great Pyramid of in the proportions of the harmonics of 432, and used stones that resonate at 432Hz, like those of many other prehistoric constructions such as Stonegenge or african sound stones...
These are just three examples (everyone is free to make their own research), but it is clear that even before the invention of the tonometer and the modern possibility to measure cycles per second,, thanks to astronomical observations, mathematics, or other, some cultures found a way to measure sound, or to define it, and check its effect on living beings and matter…
The implications and parallels between the microcosm at the molecular and atomic level, and the macrocosm in relation to the measures and distances of the planets and, through the discovery of Cymatics, with sacred geometry and the platonic solids, have only been rediscovered in modern times, but several great cultures of the past already had this knowledge!
Tuning systems such as the Equal Temperament and others, are applicable starting from a pitch of note, as is the A, at any frequency arbitrarily established, while the 432Hz Concert Pitch is called "Scientific Tuning" because of its correlations with mathematics, nature and the universe.
Consider that in the past, every family that was building musical instruments, before the mass production started, had its own pitch of intonation, as I was told by a musicologist, which varied from one family to another, according to what each luthier felt to be more correct... For example, some tuned their instruments to the singing of the birds. Every time a new instrument was built, it was tune to the previous one so that they could play together!
Giuseppe Verdi at one point decided to tune the note A to 432Hz because he had understood its mathematical and scientific implications (and not for cosmic and / or spiritual reasons)...
At a certain point of history, with the beginning of globalization on a musical level, and the development of industrial mass production of musical instruments, an international standardization was necessary, so that musicians of different nations could play together.
PS: See the intonation of Spanish Baroque music that was even at 415Hz... ;)
It is true that the brainwaves show a wide range of frequencies, but it is at 8Hz that the left and right hemispheres are working in perfect sync ...
Cymatics do not provide proof images that 432Hz is the frequency of the water or the universe (as written in the article).
It simply makes the effect of sound on matter visible, and the fact that certain harmonic frequencies form more precise patterns than other frequencies.., be they water waves or sand / salt designs on a metal plate.
It is curious that the global trend among orchestra musicians is to further raise the intonation frequency: In the US they are using frequencies between 444 and 450Hz, which implies, for example, that Pianos need to be reinforced of the with steel plates (to resist to the string's higher tension), and the life-span of concert Harps is reduced to a few years (as the extreme tension of the strings shortens the column)… In fact, we notice how the wood used to build these instruments, shows us the frequency of the natural concert pitch that should be used!
In the same way, a higher concert pitch frequency affects the vocal cords of the lyric singers, that see their vocal chords irreparably damaged after only a few years (and singers that can produce such high-pitched sounds are rare).
However music is also a personal experience and a matter of taste, hearing and individual sensitivity.
I personally prefer music tuned to A = 423Hz :) and I also have been able to notice a big difference for its calming and centering effect on hyperactive and autistic children…
The height of the Great Pyramid of Kheops is originally 146,7m high, which corresponds to the length of the Earth radius at the scale 1:43,200. Coincidence? In the Islandic Grimnismal, drawn from the poetic Edda composed between the 8th and the 12th centuries, the Walholl or Walhalla, palace of the paradise of Wotan, or Odin, is structured by 540 gates. During the "Day of the Wolf", 800 warriers will go through each of these gates to fight the ennemies of the gods in a great total annihilation. This will be the end of times, before a new cycle. 540*800=432,000: it is the same number.
In the 3rd century BC, the second book of Berosus, a chaldean priest who was translting the Babylonian myths into Greek, tells the story of the Creation with the 10 legendary kings before the deluge of Utnapishtim (the Babylonian Noah) of the Kingdom of Kish. Between the Creation and the Utnapishtim Deluge, 432,000 years have passed. The Sumerians, who did invent the sexagesimal base, but were also using the decimal base, are considering that a "sar" (a universe) lasts 60*60=3,600 years, and that 120 sars make up 432,000 years, and that 60 * 432 make a "great cycle" of 25,920 years. That figure corresponds to the cycle of the precession of the Equinoxes.
10 legendary kings for 432,000 years, this makes long-lived kings...!!
In the Bible, Genesis, there are also 10 patriarchs between Adam and Noah (the biblical Deluge), and it is said that at the time of the Deluge, Noah is exactly 600 years, 2 months and 17 days old... The 10 patriarchs are listed and are: Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalaleel, Jered, Henokh, Metuselah (Matusalem), Lemek and Noah. The text allows the computation of the date of birth of each of these patriarchs, which is: Time of the Creation T for Adam, and then/ +130, +235, +325, +395, +460, +622, +687, +874 and so T+1056 for Noah. Noah being 600 years old at the time of the Deluge, the date of the Deluge is T+1656 years (after the Creation). This number of 1656 years, if transcribed in "creation periods of 7 'days' each" corresponds to 86,400 "periods", or 2 cycles of 43,200 periods each. We find here again the 432 number and its double 864 as in the Rig Vedas.
The question of linking 432 to 864 is to be considered with respect to the ancient culture of the "wise men" and priests/magicians of the Sumer / Babylonian / Ancient Greece periods, where the "Cosmic Order" was at the center of the question of Man's position in the Universe. At this time, it was thought that there was a correspondance between the cosmic laws and the Human existence on Earth, and that Humanity was a reversed image of the Cosmic Order: What is above is as what is below (but as a "reversed" or "inverted" image). So there is a 432 "time" unit for what is below, and another 432 "time" for what is above, the whole Cosmic Order being ruled by a great cycle of 432 * 60 = 25,920 years or 1 revolution of the "world axis" (known today as the precession of the equinoxes).
And Campbell concludes that for a Man at rest, the heart beats on average at 60 beats per minute or 3600 beats per hour - and the "hour" was known at the time of the Ancient Sumerians, Babylonians and Egyptians, as the day was split already in twice 12 hours. For the Egyptians, the day was 12-hour long and the night was also 12-hour long, so these hours were not lasting the same "time" in winter as opposed to summer - but nevertheless, one full day was always 24 hours with 12 hours for the (masculine, sun-driven) day and 12 hours for the (feminine, lunar-driven) night. The Greek Odyssey has 24 "songs", each representing such a "time" in the wandering of Ulysse. In other words, the human heart beats 43,200 times during the (masculine) day, and 43,200 times during the (feminine) night.
So this figure of 432 represents the rythm of the universe that connects Man to God (or gods), by being the link between the cosmic precession of the equinoxes and the fundamental rythm of Mankind. It is then no surprise that Pythagore ended-up advocating that the "music of the spheres" was related to this figure.
Some bibliography of interest: The Shape of the Ancient Thought, Conparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies, Thomas McEvilley, 2002.
I had just graduated with my BA in analytic philosophy, mathematics, and Greek which was taught in an unusually analytic way.
it wasn't until I owned a coffeehouse/art space in Detroit that I was confronted with the magical nature of numbers in astrology — who's mechanism really is best described as the music of the the spheres and only deeply understood by a musician with a theoretical foundation.
my brain was totally wired for analytic thought and it took me years to 'get' archetypal image, the symbolic depth of meaning that transcends pure rationality.
Astrology is the mother of all esoteric sciences because it entirely integrates the rational with the non-rational. if one discounts magical systems as being non-rational (or unreal) with prejudice then that is itself an irrational belief.
one who does this has just as limited a grasp on reality as one who accepts all magical ideas without a critical eye.
there is a middle place — riding the line of in and outside the rational divide — a jazz of understanding that can't be explained only experienced. can't be notated. can't be recorded. can't be broken down into parts.
— though all these techniques can lead one there.
I have given this a lot of thought lately,, Been playing in different rock/pop coverbands for more than 20 years.. And is a deep baritone myself so I always played guitar as my voice does not seem to fit well with pop/rock music that sings rather high..
My present leadsinger struggles a bit with our material,, He is a baritenor or high pitched baritone and sings a lot of cover stuff in their original key, WE talked about detuning the guitar and bass to E-flat transposing all our material down a half note.. But to my ears a lot of songs sound less dramatic or energetic now when he sings then a half note deeper... Truth be told a lot of songs sound closer to my sweet spot now... I have at one single occasion a long time ago sang all his songs live detuned a half note by tuning the guitars and basses to e-flat, which we are in the mist of doing at the moment... I got through but just borderline... :-)
THis made me think that there is some truth to 432Hz and voice registrations.. A less dramatic downtune to 432Hz would make my leadsinger get through with less voice fatigue but still be more around his sweet spot than down at 415Hz downtune.. I think the voice and the entry to the passaggio is key.. For me it is a lot of singing on the E4 note (A4=440Hz) that wears me down,, For my leadsinger it is the F4 note that in the long run gives him trouble,,, Downtuning to 432Hz makes those passaggio note sit a little deeper more connected to the note below. In 440Hz my E4 note or his F4 note needs more weight lifted of the note which in a live situation can be difficult to do..
http://soundhealingforum.discussion.community/post/a432hz-truth-lies-and-creative-story-telling-7786262
Unfortunately, both Pierre Engel's and Larissa Cantoni's comments above perpetuate some of the false 'evidence'. Many of the points that both of you mention are simply not true. Instead of copying and pasting here, please read my article for clarification of some of those points.
There's nothing wrong with being 'wrong'. The problem comes when when refusing to update or change ones perspective when confronted with more accurate information - a common human trait, we've all done it. As Jon Anderson wrote in the Yes classic 'Perpetual Change': "As truth is gathered I rearrange...."
Fact: Stubborn humans.
That 432 is the Note of the Universe / God / or Water I am not sure of but it's certain that 1/432*6*6*6=3 where three there might have been though of as the various trinities in religions.
Besides 440 is calculated from the goldean mean phi of 360 with square-root of two, into the equation (4*(sqrt(2))/((1/c)*5/2)) i.e. 137.5*sqrt(2), though of course this might be a coincidence.
But 440 we must remember is 288 in octa-decimal (other way around actually), so it's further to think that 288 is sort-of inverse (1/x) Schuman Resonance, doubled, times synergetics constant 6 (1.125). Though only if Shuman Resonance is really actually 1/128..though this might be a co-incidence too and it's not really logical to think in decimal about octa-decimal system.
432 is 660 in Octal. But using this logic we arrive at 666 octal is 438 (in decimal) , and so that might be the next tuning.
And that last thing above isn't as far out as it sounds. Randal Roffe says the best tuning is to lower c a bit down towards Bb, Though we prefer 437.4 HZ which is from 1/(2**11)*6**7 so 136.6875*sqrt(2) in the relativity equation,
The Universe? If we really wanted a frequency tuned to that maybe we could use ((288/625)*2**3*6**2) since 625 was about the Higgs Boson (a.ka. The God particle) and again 288 claimed by some to represent anti-matter at least.
THAT SAID, *because* frequencies themselves are absolute, the article actually commits a fallacy when it says that ancient people could not have tuned their instruments to a certain frequency we now measure in Hertz: of course they could have happened on a certain frequency which we now measure to be 432 Hertz; they just wouldn't have identified as such.
THAT said, I'm not seeing any evidence that anyone did center on that specific frequency, and besides, for that to mean anything, they would have had to use the exact same major scale system as in Western music. For those that did use Western scales, before the Middle Ages there's no particular reason they would have used A4 as the centrally tuned pitch, which means you'd need to know the pitches of every note in a scale to know whether the equivalent of A4 was set a certain frequency.
HOWEVER, I do prefer 432 Hz myself.
FACT: You're an idiot.
The full frequency table for A=440 is here: http://img.sadistic.pl/pics/ed7a0bc8fd36.jpg )
Doesn't it mean something?
Many years ago we spoke about something, something music world related, when you were living in upstate NY. Have you read my article, the original one that this article heavily 'borrowed' from?
I think it's great that you enjoy the lower tuning on your piano, and I also think it's great that you have nothing scientifically tangible to say about it in the liner notes! Why would it be bad not to have something, other than to play into the 432 marketing hype? You're an artist. Artists are the 'scientists' of emotion, feeling, spirit, etc and we speak a different language. The simple fact that you are prefering your piano tuned lower is enough. Write about that, the emotion/feeling/spirit aspects you experience. I'll bet anyone twelve dollars that if you tuned it to 431Hz or 433Hz you would be having the exact same experience. Music and the great mystery and magic of life will never be nailed down to simplistic 'cure-alls' like the 432 story.
In fact, a study was done where people were played a variety of music examples where a piece was played at a particular tuning and then the identical piece played lower. In EVERY case participants preferred the lower tuning - regardless of what the lower or higher tuning was. In other words, if the lower tuning was 440Hz, that was preferred. If the lower tuning was 424Hz while the higher was 432Hz, all participants preferred the lower 424Hz. (If I had the link at hand I'd post it.) Our perceptions are relative, not absolute, and certainly not tied to a number concept that doesn't actually exist (i.e., sound waves don't actually occur as quantized and numbered phenonena).
Here's my article, published before this one was:
http://soundhealingforum.discussion.community/post/a432hz-truth-lies-and-creative-story-telling-7786262
Peace and best wishes.
Rich
See my comment above yours. Of course it's not a fluke. Our perceptions seem to be relative. What is interesting to me about this, in the 18th/19th centuries it seems that people, or at least musicians (most of whom are people as well!) experienced that raised pitch was more desireable as it made their instruments and music brighter, louder, more stimulating. In the contemporary world it's the lowering, softening, more relaxing that is the intuitive desire (in spite of what is predominant in pop culture). Could this be a natural response to the conditions of the world we have created?
Sound is as visual as taste, and touch and to a great extent has not been given it's rightful place in our existence in quite some time. A/432 likens itself to some of Nikola Tesla's eletrical experiments, where he would bathe himself with 8 hrz and claim afterwards that he felt refreshed. Also stating the walking barefoot on the earth established a comunion with the earth, through
135==1^2+2^2+3^2+11^2==1^2+2^2+7^2+9^2==1^2+3^2+5^2+10^2==1^2+6^2+7^2+7^2
==2^2+5^2+5^2+9^2==3^2+3^2+6^2+9^2==5^2+5^2+6^2+7^2
What we should, endavour to do is really to find out if x as this phi or these squares ..etc..the brain..we would have to find a neurologist; a pretty kindred one, to decide this..if it's possible?
much appreciate the above article and comments, I have grown weary of listening to musicians talk about 432. Y'all should play the Irish Uilleann pipes for a refreshed perspective on tuning....Spend half the night tuning up and the other half playing out of tune....
For me the most important components of 'Feeling something' when playing or listening to music is as follows - genre, melodic contour, harmonic components/accompaniment, instrumental timbre, note choice and placement, timing, groove, lyrical integrity (if lyrics are used) and the skill and commitment of both the performer and listener alike...to name but a few elements. Music will always be magical and cosmic....and enough of a mystery.... without worrying about a fundamental base frequency.
Life is too short, the most noble and deeply spiritual thing you can do is pursue and acknowledge the truth.(what is the 'truth'?....a debate for another time....and perfection - not for this lifetime!)
However, regarding Mozart, we do know what he tuned to because we have his tuning fork - and guess what - it was NOT 432Hz. Mozart's tuning fork measures at 421.6Hz. And another 'big surprise'.... this tuning reference was within the common range of what musicians were tuning to in his day. Anything around 432Hz would have been rather high in Mozart's era and there is no record of it being a standard for anyone at that time (and nearly never actually).
It should also be noted that there was no accurate way to measure frequency in Mozart's era. It is my guess that Mozart's tuning fork is the frequency it is simply because that is what he liked.
Here's my article, FYI in case you are interested:
https://soundhealingforum.discussion.community/post/a432hz-truth-lies-and-creative-story-telling-7786262
I like the idea of worshipping a car horn..... but think of the conflict that would generate and the warring factions that would gather around different horns! ;-)
A man in Tibet in 5000BCE does NOT need to know what a second is to arrive at a sound that (in TODAY'S world) is measured as 432Hz.
My point? Don't try to use logic to explain or dispell something by using faulty logic.
wow! some very gifted writers, and thinkers.
i am a self taught guitar,banjo,harmonica,mandolin and fiddle player.
with that being said wouldnt everyone agree that we humans are hardwired to know what sounds harmonious and what doesn't? i mean wouldn't a klinker sound just as bad to the person that couldn't play an instrument as it does to say...me? or anyone else that plays?
interesting article and i'm glad i came across it.i stumbled upon the site while researching what frequencies notes were in.then i got off on tesla and his math chart, and then 1,2,4,8,7,5 and 3,6,and 9 lol
Another hint to author; setting up your own cherry-picked weak and absurd "432Hz cures cancer!" examples to knock down does not make for a strong argument on your part. You have to do better than that.
It would also be helpful to add to the discussion that the whole A-440 standard was brought about by brass instrument makers in the 19'th century who wanted their instruments to sound as bright as possible. There was nothing the least bit 'scientific' about this standard, either, so making all this hoo ha about how 'unscientific' the 432 standard is is meaningless. Unless one thinks that "I just want my trumpet to sound really bright and really loud!" is a more scientifically valid argument for a standard of pitch than earth cycles, universal rhythms, etc.
I personally don't care about the mathematical ratio arguments, myself, but my innate ability of absolute pitch has almost always had me feeling that things were just a tad too high-pitched, though it took some years for that to sink in. I can't explain why that is.
I ask these questions: at what point is a pressure wave an actual "sound"? Does a pressure wave with a frequency of one cycle per 10 million years constitute a "sound"? Pressure waves become "sound" when there is a receptor and a processor (brain) to translate it into the experience of sound. Is a pressure wave a "sound" if no one and no thing can actually hear it?
There is no "sound" being transmitted through space in the sense that we understand sound being transmitted here on Earth. The near vacuum of space does not contain enough substance of random particles in order to transmit it.
Nice idea about the Bb, but NASA's own "pop science" articles are often click-bait-ish and misleading. I really wish their PR department would write them at a slightly higher intelligence level.
Listening to your video, it is only at 10.8Hz that I hear the oscillation sound come to a halt. I still hear it there at 5.4 and 7.2. Also, if the beat was a difference tone between the tone generator note and another tone (i.e., the background sub-acoustic vibration you suggest) then we'd be able to time the tempo of it. If it comes to halt, that is, in unison at 10.8Hz then at 9.8Hz it would be beating at a frequency of 1 per second. There is a brief pause at 10.0 as you move your finger. In that moment the pulse I hear is much faster than 1 cycle per second.
What exactly are we listening to? Is that oscillation sound coming out of the speaker on your phone?
Are you saying that you believe the phone app tone generator is actually producing sub-audible frequency tones (the app program may be creating it electronically but is the phone mechanics capable of actually producing it?), and that the oscillation interference pattern is occurring in the air between the generator tone and the "background vibrations"?
Obviously something is creating that oscillation but I'm not convinced it is what you think it is.
Thank you for sharing your inquiry.
Now, I understand that this next statement cannot be backed up by science. It's kind of irrational. I get it. But Sam really does seem to have a bit of a personality, and his personality is that of a curmudgeon. He's kind of stubborn, doesn't usually take well to changes in the environment or tuning. He's very old, so his best sound is behind him (most concert harps will play out of their best sound after about fifteen years). But I could swear he was enjoying the heck out of being tuned down to 432! His sound was beautiful that night, and in the weeks beforehand while I was trying to get him accustomed to being tuned down, he seemed to want me to tune him even lower than that! Once I started tuning him down to 432, he would go flat quite frequently as if he wanted to be tuned to Baroque standards or something, haha! I'm sure there's a rational explanation for that, but in the moment it almost seemed as if that little old harp was taking on a life of his own. And he did sound lovely. If you'd like to listen to a 30 minute snip of the two hour long lecture (the harp only features on one song but it is included), here's a link to my friend's YouTube channel and you can check it out.
https://youtu.be/ZldfY_FM6W8
If anyone is still reading these comments, thanks for reading mine! :-D
I wouldn't say it's irrational. In fact, if Sam the Harp is happier at a lower pitch it is entirely rational. It's simply that the resonance of that instrument is more in alignment with a lower tuning. It may have been made that way or it may be the effect of 100 years of aging. I am certain however that it would have responded the same if you tuned it to 431 or 433 - there is no inherent "magic" in 432. And further, as you said, it seems to prefer being tuned even lower. (Though its frequently going flat may have to do with slippage of the tuning pins.) Just use your ears. Forget about the pitch reference and just tune it to where it sounds best to you - then check the tuning reference and you'll see what Sam likes best. The only problem of course with such tuning is if one wishes to play with other instruments.
Does it really matter, which way is the 100% proven scientific way, musical way. Or what ever way it is made? As long as it sounds good, and is pleasing to you and others? And as for saying before a certain time period, time wasn't measured in seconds? Who or what is to say those people didn't know this? I mean they built the freaking pyramids and how many other masterful pieces of art and architecture. Didn't they? How did they manage that, when the wheel hadn't even been invented yet. lol. Maybe they did have wheels, we just have never found one, Maybe they did count time by seconds, and never wrote about it? I just read an article yesterday, I had read many years ago & forgot about. Saying 528 is the perfect or magical number.
That is what I was Googling, when I came across this article. What I had already read also mentioned 432 as well as 440. Which seems to me like with what someone else said. Globalization, that number was forced on us, whether we wanted to accept it or not. lol. I laugh ( lol ) when I say that, but it's more a nervous reaction I have in real life. That I then turn into using lol to represent it online. Because from what I have read about Globalization is, originally the idea of it was the "raise up" the worlds poor. To the level of the average American workers pay level.
But they eventually realized that was going to take way too long to do and would also be way to expensive to do as well ( something someone else in this thread mentioned as the reason for settling on 440 as the magical number. Being MONEY ) So 440 was forced on us all. And now Globalization reversed direction & is lowering the average pay of Americans and those who make a decent wage in other countries. To that of the 3rd world countries. Virtually pennies. Because it's much less expensive to do it that way.
Any way, I found in life over my 57 years alive, as with music? I Love Balance, I Love Harmony. Peace and Harmony. But because I love balance almost as much or even more then any of it? I have to have the ying with the yang. Not one or the other. Too much of one and I feel off balance. It works in every facet of my life as well. Which is why I know for a fact, I developed mental illness, and the specific one I was diagnosed as having. BIpolar, lol. Again sounds kind of ridiculous I know, and what does this have anything to do with the original topic?
I am more inclined naturally to go with what was originally the frequency or tone or what ever it is called. That does what people says it does to them. keeps you in balance, harmony. Yet also allows you to break free, beyond those bounds, if you choose to do so. I never fit into this world, and the harder I chose to try and force myself to? My natural or "mental balance" got all screwed up. What if the music at 440 actually does the same thing to people? And 432 or 528 does the opposite? I mean music is now every where, being used in movies, TV, commercials, elevators, phone systems. You name it. Yeah I know, warning bells for "conspiracy theory" are going off here right? lol.
Really? Then please show us your evidence, that would help to support your position greatly, thank you.
If you like to see things for yourself, and as you've asked if anyone here has done frequency experiments - I'll ask you: have you done the experiments?
Cheap meme pictures comparing Cymatic images of 440 to 432 don't count. If you know anything about the process then you know such a comparison is false. If you know anything about frequency then you know those numbers have nothing to do with any sort of reality of sound waves. In other words, there is NOT 432 of anything occuring in a 432Hz tone.... nor any other frequency.
As far as Cymatic images are concerned, they are entirely dependent on the size and shape of the vibrating plate as well as the volume and mass of the vibrated substance (water, sand etc) You can make pretty images for 440, and any other frequency, just as you can for 432. Likewise, you can make chaotic images for 432 just as you can for 440.
This has nothing to do with "the music industry".
This has nothing to do with conspiracy.
The only "conspiracy" is among those that seek to profit off of the 432 delusion by selling "432 products". That conspiracy is real.
In reply to the other post above, one should realize that 432 and 528 are not even in harmony with each other. You need to go with one or the other as your preferred mystical healing tone but not both at the same time.
But if you understand sound waves and what frequency measurements really are, then you know that the numbers are meaningless in the actual experience of sound and music.
"All this numerology is nice, but there is something that you should take in count, the units. The number "432" or any other number doesn't represent anything, since 432hz depends on the hz, wich depends on the second, which is completely arbitrary. The only number that could in principle have some intrinsic importance are relations between quantities of the same units, since that would be a pure numbers and not a relationship between two distinct units, which will always be arbitrary"
But the second is not arbitrary is was derived by the Babylonians. See the link below:
Why is a minute divided into 60 seconds, an hour into 60 minutes, yet there are only 24 hours in a day? - Scientific American
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/experts-time-division-days-hours-minutes/
The ancients were smarter than us because they calculated without any computers, they did it in their heads, and their results are uncannily close to results derived by computers.
Here's another fascinating resource that is required reading:
Ernest G. McClain – Musical Adventures in Ancient Mythology
https://ernestmcclain.net/
My acoustic guitar does sound better in standard tuning than 1/2 step down (432) probably because it's resonant frequency is based upon standard tuning. Tuned down to 432 the overall volume is decreased and sounds dead compared to 440. However, an instrument designed to resonate at 432 would be an interesting test!
Someone mentioned that in the days of yore they used to design the instrument based upon the musician's voice which makes sense since the melody is based upon the human voice. Ideally the tuning should be tail9ored to the singer, since melody is based upon the human voice.
One other thing is that playing an instrument tuned to 432 should sound different than one played at 440 and the recording slowed down.
If the 432 deniers seem so irritable maybe it's because of the adverse effect that 440 hz is having on them :) / sarc.
Ultimately, the human ear becomes accustomed to the higher pitched tuning, and people seem to like it fine. They would probably like it better if the instruments were made to resonate at 432, but at this point it seems impractical, that is if you want to be able to easilyu play with others.
Nowhere in that Scientific American article does it say that the Babylonians derived the 'second', and the reason for that is because they didn't. It wasn't until the Greeks many centuries later that a circle was divided into 360 degrees and then further subdivisions of minutes and seconds were made - for geographical measurement, not for time measurement. And in those eras, even when hours were being measured, the length of the hours were not the same throughout the year - shorter hours in winter, longer in summer, and changing every day - so even if there were 'seconds' of time being measured, which there wasn't or at least we have no knowledge or historical records of, they would not have been standardized.
It wasn't until around 1000AD that the Persian mathemetician and scholar al-Biruni conceptually introduced to time measurement the idea of 'seconds', as well as 'thirds' and 'fourths', but a way to measure them was not developed to well over 500 years later, and not scientifically accurate time measuring of seconds until the early 19th century.
Regardless of who and when, even if the Babylonians had created such accurate timekeeping it still would be man-made, would still be an arbitrary division, one with no foundation in nature. Bautista is correct in what he stated. In the reality of a sound wave there is not any numbered "frequency" associated with it. And also as he indicated or implied, the only "real numbers" are in the relationships between different waves.... the harmonic relationships. For instance, a wave vibrating at a rate 1.5 times the rate of another wave creates the harmony we call a perfect 5th. These relative rates and the harmonies they produce have nothing to do with time measurement or reference frequency.
I do agree with you about the issues with tuning instruments up or down and contemporary instruments being designed for optimal resonance at a 440Hz reference pitch. To tune our guitars down to 432 we'd need a somewhat longer scale length to tune at that lower pitch yet maintain the same string tension.
Recently I tuned one of my stringed instruments down to 432 and kept it that way for two days, playing it about a total of 4 or 5 hours over those two days. Never did it start sounding good to me! It's sound was noticeably and annoyingly dull and lethargic compared to it being tuned to 440.
I like the idea of instruments being designed to best support a singer's vocal range. Great for solo artists, but yes, not so great if one wants to play with others.
Here's a reference to the Babylonians:
Keeping Time: Why 60 Minutes?
https://www.livescience.com/44964-why-60-minutes-in-an-hour.html
Here's another:
Why are there 24 hours in a day? › Ask an Expert (ABC Science)
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2011/11/15/3364432.htm
Google returned 5,890,000 results for the search terms: "babylonians second time clock".
Here is a fascinating book, a must read, that should answer your questions:
"The Myth of Invariance"
https://ernestmcclain.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/mythsofinvariance_sanscartoonsoptimized.pdf
The point is, that our musical system and (time system) are derived from naturally occurring cosmic cycles and ratios, such as: the orbits of the planets around the sun, which allows for calculation of the year, month, week, day, hour, and second. Please read the book (it is free) before responding to the author.
It only follows that human hearing evolved to hear frequencies as they occur in nature. Shouldn't be all that difficult to understand. Nor should it be difficult to understand how our time system was derived by the ancients who observed the planetary cycles with astonishing accuracy.
Here is another highly recommended fun to read book that will answer your questions:
Harmonic Experience | Book by W. A. Mathieu | Official Publisher Page | Simon & Schuster
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Harmonic-Experience/W-A-Mathieu/9780892815609
"Bautista is correct in what he stated. In the reality of a sound wave there is not any numbered "frequency" associated with it. And also as he indicated or implied, the only "real numbers" are in the relationships between different waves.... the harmonic relationships. For instance, a wave vibrating at a rate 1.5 times the rate of another wave creates the harmony we call a perfect 5th. These relative rates and the harmonies they produce have nothing to do with time measurement or reference frequency."
Bautista may be right about sound waves, but we are no talking about any sound waves, rather about musical sounds, and human hearing.. There are hypersonic and subsonic waves and there are sound waves that are painful or uncomfortable to listen to, as some say about 440 hz tuning. Sure, the same ratios apply across the spectrum, but we are audiophiles interested in pleasing music, not arbitrary "sound waves".
Bautista is right about the ratios, though, and that is why the human ear is able to adjust to the raised 440 frequency. this explains why other cultures that use "just intonation" do not like our standard tuning and visa versa. If you read the book "Harmonic Experience" you will learn how to calculate those overtone frequencies and understand why the Fifth is = 3/2 and the Third = 5/4.
That's all I know about it. If you have any further questions read the two books mentioned above, use the internet, or ask a physics professor, because math is not my bag.
It's great that we agree on designing instruments for the benefit of the singer, but that would limit our ability to play with others. Maybe custom instruments for the entire band? It would drive the producer crazy! But then again, the melody is based on the human voice. My electric guitar sounds great tuned down 1/2 step and probably the electric Bass, too. The 440 concert pitch is designed to enhance the sound of the piano in a classical concert. Some woodwinds etc are tuned 1/2 step down so it gets complicated.
Obviously a standard tuning pitch makes it easier to play with other musicians. It's too bad that they based the standard pitch upon what makes the concert piano sound better, rather than what's easier to sing and is more natural. For acoustic guitar I'll play standard tuning, but with electric can tune down 1/2 step.
But the fact that bands tune down 1/2 step to benefit the singer is clear evidence that the 432 hz is a superior reference tone. It just occurs to me, that in the book "Harmonic Experience" the author explains exactly why the pitch was raised to 440 hz to make the concert piano sound better.
I have my own opinion about it and that’s just that, because facts are hard to get on this subject.
But... I can tell you for sure that for me lower is better. I play guitar and sing and I like the sound of my guitar tuned a bit lower when I don’t play with others. Not all sax players like to play in Eb. In fact, I know only one sax player who told me he didn’t mind while another one just moved back and stopped playing...
I was playing in Eb for my voice back then, but had to go back in E to be able to play with others.
But I also hate vocal performers who push their voice too high and sound like crying instead of singing. I prefer a warm voice.
So what does it have to do with 432 hz? Well, I realised that it sounds more natural for me and adopted it after trying it a few times. I like to meditate these days and indeed it does seem to make a difference... and what my wife feels relaxing is not for me, and the reverse is true. So it may be a personal thing ???
Thank you for the various links. Some of them I have read previously but not all.
But I must wonder if there is just a communication misunderstanding between us, or if you aren't thoroughly reading the articles you linked. I'm not assuming this, I'm just questioning, since, in the very first paragraph of that LiveScience article you linked above, it says clearly:
"These smaller divisions of time have been in practical use for only about 400 years"
Only about 400 years. Long after the Babylonians. And they weren't even proposed until the 11th century by Persian scholar al-Biruni, also long after the Babylonians. This information is entirely consistent with what I have been saying and entirely consistent with what I wrote in my well researched 432 article. (Which preceded the article that began this discussion, actually.)
Yes, the Babylonians, and the Sumerians before them, were using base 60 math for counting. I have no argument with that, it is well researched knowledge. But there is zero evidence that they were measuring time in minutes, let alone in seconds. There is no evidence of this, and the article does not suggest any evidence of this. Our modern measurement of time is based on base 60 counting, which has its roots in Sumerian base 60 counting - but this is not at all the same as the idea that the Sumerians or Babylonians were counting time in minutes and seconds with that system. They didn't even have a 24 hour clock.
Yes, of course, our year, month and day are based on naturally occuring cycles - the day being the most indisputably obvious, while the month no longer accurately reflects the moon cycle even as it was based on it.
But the week, hour minute and second are not based on naturally occuring time cycles.
Here's my musical 432 cents (but not 432 1/100s of a half-step).
Much of the current Western music is based on the octave being divided by 12 halftones.
One method to devise a 7-note legitimate scale (meaning containing one form of each of the 7 note names) is based on combining 2 tetrachords by a 2-halfstep connector.
Tetrachords are defined as 4 consecutive note names spanning 5 halfsteps. The 2-halfstep connection is needed to reach the octave.
There are 6 tetrachords as defined above.
Now here is where the fun starts...
Any of the 6 tetrachords can be chosen to start the scale. And, any can be connected to finish the scale. This allows for 36 possible scale forms.
BUT WAIT...
Each scale form can start on any of the 12 halfsteps.
So, 6 tetrachords multiplied by 6 tetrachords equals 72 scale types multiplied by 12 halfsteps equals... Tah-dah... 432 unique 7-note legitimate scales!
(Mic drop)
Far from it...we have actually decended into very primitive waters and lost touch with ourselves and Consciousness. We think civilization has advanced but the opposite is true.
You talk about these instruments of music as if they are inanimate. Why? Because we have lost communication and connection with all things and ultimately ourselves.
Nothing is dead.
Why don't we ask the piano, the harp, the guitar, our mp3 players, our machines what they like to play?
Open up and realize they are quite Conscious and very much a part of us.
Get yourself very very quiet and totally relaxed and have a blank mind without any thought or judgement.....have your instrument of music close to you...let him/her open up to you. Become one!
They will let you know they are Conscious too and how they desire to be played and nourished.
This thread discusses what we listeners want, if we consider not being seperate but unified with our tools the harmony will develop and take place on its own. It not a matter of hz.
There is a whole new and exciting dimension that is waiting to open up and happen just for you.
Thanks, secretsongs, probably the most important post here yet!
Guitar strings don't lie.
Also important to note that 666Hz is the perfect 5th of A=444Hz, thus it can be concluded without doubt that the European concert tuning of A=444Hz is inherently evil. I repeat: Inherently Evil. XXXXXXXX!!!!!
Need we not wonder further why Wagner wrote the music that he did!)
;-)
:D
I’m going to test the other numbers you have because it seems you may be into something. My searching on the number 10 I was using already led me to find you. I knew 10 was something important just based upon I found all things are what I call scriptures and truth hidden in plain sight that people just never saw something great hidden there in front of their eyes. What gave me the number 10 was the saying the perfect ten. I’ve made these in 432, 528 and virtually all numbers anyone could mention and the 528 is really good but not my best finding as of today, 432 didn’t do much that I could notice but I do believe it’s somthi important.
From my perspective so far on my quest I believe all tunings are of great value but not when they are singled out . Alone they are incomplete I’m seeing. Nature and the United has and used them all and I don’t see people focusing on this fact based upon unity and not separation as I myself think and live. I wish we all did instead of what was see here where allot of comments are to just prove a self right and another wrong. This again is a division. What I see is that all are right and all are wrong because non have learned t piece all options and observances together to make all complete and therefore all most perfectly right and no longer each of us being but yet only a half truth or partial truth and in that all are wrong.
Rich G I’m just curious why you didn’t touch mr mic drops comment...... Erk Etn ?
I'm not sure what you feel I should have touched in Erk Etn's comments?
For one thing, this isn't the centerpiece of my life, and I've already said plenty here, so it's not my intent or purpose to respond to everything. Further, I didn't see anything of great significance in his post.
But since you brought it up.....
Should I have corrected his math? 6 x 6 = 36, not 72.
Traditionally, there are four tetrachords, not six. But one can also make five of them. But what is the sixth one? C, Db, E double flat(?), F....?? Is that it, a double flatted note? And then if so, you are going to call that a scale form using that as the first tetrachord with the 2nd step sharped tetrachord on top?
Thus:
C, Db, Ebb, F, G, A#, B, C. ....which now has five half-steps in a row from A# to Ebb. What "scale form" is this called?
And then also, we've left out the Lydian scale, all twelve of them, using the definition Erk Etn is using of five half steps per tetrachord - since the first tetrachord of the Lydian scale covers six half steps.
And we've also left out the Hungarian Minor scale which also uses the sharped 4th, covering six half steps, not five.
...and there are more....
Maybe everyone should endeavor to do their own more thorough and proper research before they post - and certainly not rely on me to do it!
When you are playing with 6's and 12's you're likely to hit on 432's. And that is supposed to "mean something"? Supposed to be "evidence" of something grand and mystical? It really isn't. And besides, it's just numbers. Sound waves are not numbers - we only use arbitrary number system measurements to identify them but they aren't actually numerical phenomena.
I used to have a friend who lived on the 6th floor at 12 Sixth St.....if only I had realized at the time that she was living in 432! :O
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323659919
The entire universe is made up of vibrating particles and we are yet not completely there.
Many of the facts you talk about here certainly seem demystifies the Occult meanings of 432.
And the universe is much more flexible than having a universal reference pitch like this.
I think different pitches will correlate to different mathematical correlations.
But 432 is, in fact, a hidden key to connect with 2 dimensional and 3-dimensional geometric values.
And it is connected to the 12, 60 counting and measurement system we use to measure time, space, geometry and some math.
This system arose with the Sumerians 5000 years ago and that does give quite a bit of an occult taste to it.
If you were to look through this video you can see for your self. Here it is shown in a quite simple manner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY74AFQl2qQ
So even with all your facts it just looks like we have missed its significance and its time to find out what its applications in Cymatics and the new frequency paradigm will be .
Stay Tuned!!
All the best
Niko
https://ernestmcclain.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/mythsofinvariance_sanscartoonsoptimized.pdf
Here he's talking about the the numbers 60 and 432:
"In Oriental Mythology Joseph Campbell calculates the precessional cycle, which he believes may have been known to the ancient Babylonians, as follows: the slight annual lag of about 50 seconds amounts to 1 degree in 72 years (50†×72 = 3,600†= 60' = 1°) and in 2,160 years amounts to 30 degrees, which is one sign of the zodiac, hence in 25,920 years (12 ×2,160) it would be 360 degrees, one complete cycle of the zodiac, often referred to as a “great year,†or a “Platonic year,†although the number has little to do with Plato.4 Campbell observes that, although this number is attributed to the sixteenth c. A.D. (sic !), 25,920 divided by 60 (a standard Babylonian “unitâ€) yields 432 (our “standard†Ṛg Veda digits), digits which occur in the 432,000 years which Berossus, the last priest of Marduk (c. 290 B.C.) gave as the sum of the reigns of the ten antediluvian kings. The precessional number is thus embedded, not far below the surface, in the normal “sexagesimal arithmetic†of Babylon ; the Hindus habitually clear sexagesimal fractions by a least common denominator, but build their cosmology on the same base. The number 432,000 measures the diameter of Ptolemy's “great circles†; he takes 60 as the “unit†of the radius so that the diameter is “double†at 120, and he subdivides this diameter into 60 minutes of 60 seconds each (120 ×602 = 432,000). Since he describes Greek tuning systems with sexagesimal fractions rather than with Hindu whole numbers, we overlook his direct linking of Eastern and Western musical thought. In short, we remain totally confused as to when and where and by whom our system was invented, and quite uncertain how much knowledge should be attributed to the ancient cultures which knew the numbers we are using. About all that we can say for certain about the precessional number 25,920 (which is astronomically slightly too large, according to modern measures) is that it fits beautifully into the cosmology of those people who never tried to break the original bonds between music, mathematics, and astronomy..."
That's just an excerpt enjoy the read!
Pythagoras and others did not have to know of the existence of Hz frequency scale.
We do know about the scale. We can measure the frequency of any historical musical instrument if we have the instrument...
I do not need to have a thermometer or know of its existence in order to determine the most suitable temperature of water in my bathtub.
I do not need to know or measure the amount of oxygen in the air in order to breathe in the most optimal amount. - Examples are just to make the point. No need to compare.
However regarding a lot of the comments about history, I would like to recommend a couple videos. One just a quick update on relatively new research, and another even more fascinating presentations by an excellent researcher.
We have only discovered a fraction of our past humanity, cultures, civilizations. Thousands of recently discovered cities only recently discovered via LIDAR etc where they were never known to exist in the Amazon of Brazil, very highly advanced mathematically and culturally. Also, humans present in the Americas many thousands (possibly 100,000+ years ago). Relatively recent findings, and hopefully future research about the Sahara desert quite recently (humanity wise) being tropical and lush. And recently located 'fortress' and other structures, also discovered by LIDAR, buried in the sand that has been explored very little so far.
The well done research by many people are finding there are massive civilizations we are barely starting to find and they knew math and geometry VERY well, so who KNOWS what and who invented what when we've only barely started digging.
https://youtu.be/GAccZ8eWhXo
https://youtu.be/Z0_Of0WGkEs
Worth watching.
Thanks for those links, definitely worth watching. I've long been a fan of Graham Hancock and his research. Yes, clearly there were ancient civilizations that we know nothing about and are only now beginning to rediscover, and surely they knew many things and may have had technologies that differ significantly from ours.
But as far as my perspective, if the number 432 really contained some special properties found in nature we would still see them now. And if the time measurement of a 'second' was also created by the ancients, and also had any meaning, source or relevance in nature, in something outside of man's arbitrary mental creation, we would be able to see that now too, but we don't. So it is useful, in the present, to see what we know in the present and when they became known in the known history of that last few thousand years. Things long lost and long forgotten need to be relearned.
Wouldn't it be just incredible if we found in one or more of these ancient buried cities in the desert or the Amazon a well preserved library detailing their knowledge and history?
I've mixed sound in public venues since the early 80s. Some techs use the EQ like it's all scientific numbers. When I train new techs, I teach them to EQ a venue and event according to how they physically hear the sound when they are sitting or standing where the listeners will be. It may not be scientically quantifiable, but I've found it most effective. Incidentally, I've only had one or two technical musicians name frequencies they thought I should adjust, but I've had countless listeners describe to me how the sound felt, often unconsciously pointing to different parts of their body.
So, I wonder if maybe this should be an angle to consider more than "what is the most scientific frequency." What if each band (group) tuned their instruments to suit their musical style and (more importantly) their target audience's listening preference? Perhaps bands might have to tune to different frequencies depending on the geographical location of the performance, the resonance qualities of the venue (which affects how the listeners hear/perceive/experience the music), or even the era, season, or time of day. Perhaps this encourage a greater diversity in music instead of the current trend of so many musical styles sounding increasingly more similar.
I understand the reasons for standard tuning frequencies, but if the primary purposes of music are for communicating the musician's intended message and the listeners receiving that message, why make only one frequency that standard tuning which might limit or constrict this communication? I see that as similar to musicians believing there is one supreme volume level, one supreme rhythm pattern, or one supreme meter.
For further context, in addition to my technical experience, I received four years of music history, theory, and composition training in the 80s, additional training in music history and theory less than ten years ago, and ongoing studies in music theory. I also play guitar and mandolin. I prefer the mandolin because of its tuning in fifths, and I enjoy tuning to lower frequencies (most generally 432 Hz) because I like how it sounds and how my instrument feels as it resonates against my abdomen. My wife, a lifetime clarinet player, preferred to hear my instruments tuned to 432 Hz before she realized what I was doing differently. And 432 Hz (or thereabouts) seems to be most fitting for my personal musical expressions.
Anyway, that's just my .423 to .440 worth. ;-)
As recorded by Dr Anupam Bandyopadhyay-
The vibration signals- notes in our neuron microtubules (@ 26 min-link below) are C, B flat, and A flat, with a very strong emphasis on the C (4 Octaves). It should be noted however -this is only one microtubule of only one brain- unless I have the information mistaken.
Dr Hameroff srates that the recording was altered in order to be audible...
I don't know if this means altering the pitch or by how much.
I also dont know if the electrical signal used to simulate the neuron had any effect on the tone it produced. It might produce a different tone if a different amplitude is used.
In terms of music theory, it is a C chord with no 3rd and no 5th, plus a minor 7th (B flat) and a slightly present A flat (minor 6th).
It would seem, from the viewpoint of holistic medicine, listening to and feeling this vibration - 262 Hz, as well as the octaves above and below- 344 Hz, 131 Hz, etc..(the more the merrier) might produce a health benifit from the sympathetic resonance.
https://youtu.be/Xx0SsffdMBw
I am in possession of a large (12" approximate diameter) bronze Tibetan Bowl that has been authenticated to have its origin in the 14th century. The bowl produces a clean, voluminous, unwavering tone with sustain of about a minute when struck with a padded mallet.
As an experiment, I placed my SNARK tuner with its microphone input enabled and, set to A=432hz standard, struck the bowl and the tuner registered a perfectly pitched G, with no hint of sharp or flat tendencies. Not surprisingly, resetting the tuner to A=440 the bowl registers the note emitted by the bowl as a deep A-flat.
Rather than assert the anachronistic argument that these Tibetan singing bowls could not have been tuned to a standard non-existent at the time, perhaps recognition that some other standard was employed to similar result -- but for other reasons not well understood by us today.
My guess is the bowl produces this tone not by accident, but because it was either the product of a metal worker who possessed a very refined ear and/or he had access to another bowl that was known to possess the desired tonal standard that had previously become valued by those people in that culture.
That others report hearing bowls that exhibit this same quality should be reason enough to look carefully at those reports and lend them weight as evidence supporting the hypothesis that the standard pitch A=432 appears to be at work in those musical instruments from antiquity; produced by a people known to be particularly sensitive to subjective experiences and their significance.
The interesting question is what they sought and valued in those and related tones.
I also gave a few old Tibetan bowls that sound in frequencies that are harmonic to 432 Hz.
One in particular sonuds in perfext A = 216 Hz
For me, I use this frequency in all of my music now as I realised that when my friends I make a song from just singing first, it happens to naturally be in a 432hz tuning, and out guitar strings last longer too ^°^
I believe there to be huge mathematical significance, and i call 432hz "universal tuning."
HOWEVER, 440hz is not to be disregarded, as it is simply a root frequency of multiple.
I find more mathematical significance of the notes in the tuning of 432hz,in relation to the power of 9
While singing various old music, many said that that organs and other instruments were tuned differently, some by a lot and so trying to "standardize" the reproduction, especially for singers (I'm a low bass so higher IS better at times) as a high E is easier than an F or F#, or is modern E really an Eb or D? hmmmmmm
***Folks also assume that the recording and duplication process is "perfect" but I have DVD's that are pitched high even though they showed themselves tuning at 440.
Then there is the whole "equal tempered scale" thing too. :)
I’ve really enjoyed this article and especially the learned and intuitive and witty responses!
I ran across it after tuning some of my guitars to 432, and deciding to research it.
I don’t know if that Sufi mystic taught whirling dervishes at a particular rpm, but Rumi also utilized music as meditation for mystical transformation (or something like that). He stated that if all the instruments should just disappear, we’d still hear the music coming from the ground and all around.
Two other research results: 1) The existence of at least one underground temple room on the island of Malta which room was (almost certainly) tuned to 110 Hz, and the “timing” of their planning and action was thousands of years prior to modern discovery of tools to so measure; and 2) Modern psychoanalysts sometime “treat” patients with 110 Hz “sound” because its been proven to calm patients’ minds down (or something like that). Match a male voice to the A string on your guitar (110 or 108 Hz) and it sounds to me much like the chanting “om” (or something like that).
Browning/Delmhorst state “There is something about the music that must be answered to.” Who knows what the answer is?
I’ve been to modern physicians offices and asked about the tuning fork in the examination rooms! They were taught to use them for diagnostics, I’m told, and the forks are C; I don’t know whether 440 Hz tuning. My pitch was not that perfect(!) and I don’t ordinarily carry a measurement device to the exam room.
Thanks for the discussion on the black hole topic! Jimmy Buffet mentions, “black holes humming Bb / heard only by street cats / astronauts in orbit and singers in the bars.”
After being compelled to write down the above, I played my 432 Hz-tuned Zager, choosing the key of songs to fit my voice and listened to the guitar’s sustaining resonance, and it was most calming and enjoyable. Even more so than your enjoyable entries! And I can’t really describe the effect, but would like to.
Please add Zen jokes! :)
Obviously no is saying ancient people had modern devices for tuning their instruments. Whether they called it hertz or used seconds- WAS IT THE SAME PITCH OR NOT?
Most of the other "fictions" were contradicted in the "fact" portion. OK- change the "all" to "most" and now its a fact?
At least I learned a good amount in the comments here.
lbum represent anger chaos and retribution
lbum represent anger chaos and retribution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh8Vi_RHlFE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD48H4-y8-E
432000 miles represents the radius of the sun in you guessed it miles which are containers containing
feet which are containers containing inches and when you move that reel relationship over to the reel
of circular geometry you wind up looking at a radius that is connected to every point surrounding a point
and the ratii at which the ratio are determined is a diagonal concept familiar to all players of music read
from left to right and using a scale that gets to the root of 432 which is as stated in the Timaeus read by any
appreciator of the Muse must have read by now since it has been on the bookshelf since your mother was not
yet an idea in the mind of the mother of the mother of the mother of your mothers mother and longer than that by
a factor of three to the power of two at least so here it is in the terms which lend it to be showing up in the calculated calculations of anything larger than a drop of salt water weighing in at impact at 1gm lined up at
1cm boxed in at 1 cube etc etc displaying the useful ness of using metric measure meant to measure water
at the arith metrick used to tell time one gets a different key as a result of the shifted fifth and so again here we go
3^3*2^4*1^& and you are off to the races where you will find that at the usual level of dividing by three 144 and
at the usual level of dividing by 2 72 which as all witches brew knew the result and result is 9 x 8 which fate
itself divides into the component guitar melody beginning with a power of three as 3^2 x 2^3 x 1^&
and you count up from there in groups of three two nine and twenty seven to get to heaven
thought that some of the 8,000,000,000 other hominids looking at the Muse saw the light
but apparently in here not so much so spread the darkness my friends the light is everywhere and
the cost of burning the oil to bring this to your eyes is as stupid as stupid gets so get with it and write
a protest song that Joan Baez will get up and sing again one that sounds like the sun and runs like the wind
the electric Torpedo fish for about 500 and more likely 5000 years while the big ole pointy buildings were being
built over a thousand or more years up the Nile until they got to Giza where the perfect pitch of that group was
as good as it gets in a universe where the sun which runs the show in this part of the system has a radius of 432
moon units given the size of the unit of similar proportionality measured at the moon leaving the pale blue dot
with the last of the lot which is four from which more can come in groups and sums but you know the rest so
take the test and break the news to the muse that 432 the number of the sun is not the number equal to the
number 1 when the base of the addition is units ringing true at all the intervals above and below the number
of you who seem to be aware of what you are made of...:...take a circle divide it up into 360 sections divide
the circle by 15 sections get 24 units multiply 24 units by 60 minutes multiply those by seconds get the third
number on the list when using 60 as the numerical base to your magic calculator in the sane sand...
the magic system found on the plimpton 322 (random number) piece of clay shows that at school a few thou
before PI was the subject of lunch more often than not in some parts around the edges of the Med pool
the beach combers and the clam diggers knew what a second was faster than an electric eel can recharge
its muscle cells for another shocking message to any old alligator you need to goodle soon and see
Friction: Pythagoras’ A was 432 Hz.
Fact: Pythagoras’ tuning system is ratio based. It is not based on an absolute pitch, but rather on the relations from an arbitrary reference pitch. We already know Pythagoras could not have known what a second is, so he could not know what Hz meant. Indeed 432 is a multiplication of the ratio between C and A, where C is 1 and A is 27/16 which is the same as 432/256—however this applies to any base frequency and has nothing to do with a specific Hz.
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