音楽理論:432 Hzのチューニング - フィクションから事実を分けます

In exploring the 432 Hz debate at Ask.Audio, we soon realised this topic wasn't going to be resolved in one article. Here Assaf Dar Sagol explores the fact and fiction behind tuning to 432 Hz.  

この記事では、著者の見解や研究を表します。 :あなたは巨大な議論訪問このページ巻き起こしたリンダ・アーノルドによって432 Hzの記事読み興味があれば音楽理論:432 Hzのチューニングディベートを探るを

432ヘルツ。マジックナンバーの誰もが話しています。宇宙の癒しの力を持っているし、私たちの音楽に観客の大衆を引き付けるために、宇宙の固有振動数であると言われています。ただ、あまり私たちの標準のA = 440Hzの下の半音よりも私たちの音楽をチューニングすることで、私たちは宇宙の隠された財宝への直接アクセスを約束しています。

いわゆる提示多くの記事があります。

Fact #1

フィクション:

事実:

それよりもさらに

1834年前の古代チベット人、ピタゴラスと誰もが意図的にこの周波数スケールは、単に時に存在していなかったとして、432ヘルツを測定するために自分の楽器をチューニングしていませんでした。

Pythagoras was born 1500 years before the idea of  a second was conceived.

ピタゴラスは、1500年のアイデアの前に生まれました

リソース:

http://hps4000.com/pages/special/sound_history.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second

Fact #2

フィクション:

ピタゴラス

The monochord

一弦琴

あなた自身のために聞きます:

リソース:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_tuning

Fact #3

フィクション:

事実:

ヘンデル

リソース:

Tuning fork

アンティーク音叉

Fact #4

フィクション:

事実:

ヴェルディは1859年フランスに応じて(435 Hzにチューニングする彼のレクイエムを要求しました

リソース:

Fact #5

フィクション:

Historic tunings graph.

歴史的なチューニンググラフ。

リソース:

Fact #6

フィクション:

事実:

脳波や神経振動は約1 Hzから70 Hzの間の範囲と8 Hzまたは任意の方法で432ヘルツの他の部門にチューニングされていません。

シューマン共振は、地球から発信電磁振動のセットです。それらの一つは、現在、7.83Hzの平均ではなく、8 Hzで共振します。これは55を掛けた場合、私たちにA = 430.65 Hzのを提供します。閉じる、ない葉巻。

スタンフォード大学の天文学者は周り5.964 GHzで太陽からの超音波振動を記録しています。彼らは誤って142ヘルツの周波数をヒットする42,000回(そのピッチを変更する)、それらを遅くしなければならなかった - と、再び私たちのA = 426Hzの周波数をもたらすであろういくつかにより記載のない144。

水の分子は、(赤外線スペクトルに近い非常に高い周波数の広帯域で90を振動させることができます

Natural frequencies.

固有振動数。

リソース:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_wave

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances

http://solar-center.stanford.edu/singing/

http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/magnetic_electric_effects.html

Fact #7

フィクション:

事実:

リソース:

http://www.wam.hr/sadrzaj/us/Cavanagh_440Hz.pdf

Fact #8

フィクション:

事実:

Chladni Plate

クラードニプレート

これは、(ちょうどギターの弦のような)440 Hzで共振するようにチューニングされている水の金属板や体がで素敵cymatic形状を生成することを意味します

幾何学的形状は定在波と呼ばれるよく知られた現象に作成されます。

リソース:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Chladni

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_wave

Fact #9

フィクション:

事実:

異なるピッチにチューニングするアコースティック楽器の音色に微妙な影響を持っていますが、電子的に発生する音に違いはありません。

リソース:

http://www.the-compound.org/writing/classicaltuning.pdf

In Conclusion

432 Hzのは、他のものより、任意の特別な意味のないちょうど別の番号であるように思われます。特定の周波数にあなたの音楽をチューニングすることは、宇宙の力のロックを解除、またはあなたの音楽は、良くも悪くも音になるわけではありません。 A = 440Hzの標準チューニングに固執するミュージシャンを必要としないルールや法律が存在しない、と述べました。深刻なミュージシャンがそのようなすべての楽器の音色のように実行可能な理由のために変則チューニングを使用すると、音楽の需要と、組成物の歴史的背景を構築する必要があります。

作業中に、個人的なノートでPolyverse音楽

楽しみを持って、作成し、実験、およびドン

Interested in music theory? Check out the Music Theory video courses in the Ask.Audio Academy (featuring musicians like Jordan Rudess!)

Assaf Dar Sagol is the co-founder and CEO of Polyverse Music. A company that creates unique plug-ins in collaboration with world renowned artists. Their first release is I Wish By Infected Mushroom. Assaf has produced and arranged albums for all major record companies in Israel, working with top notch artists and professionals of the ... Read More

Discussion

Tyler
Thank you for injecting reason into this "argument."
Milton
These facts are well known and just plain ignored by many 432hz advocates so still not sure why this is considered a 'debate' any more than a 'Flat Earth' debate. When 433hz sites start correcting errors that will be something. Nonetheless kudos for these succinct and accurate corrections!
Milton
432 not 433. Although 433hz is of course the actual magical frequency.
cadgbd
Nature is not static or linear. There is no "magical frequency". Furthermore people's ears and bodies resonate at slightly different frequencies. 432 hz is merely an approximation, a happy medium if you will, which singers find more comfortable than 440 hz.

It is impossible to build an instrument that vibrates at that precise frequency due to the margins of error in calculation and construction and variations in temperature and humidity, etc.

432 hz is close enough to the comfortable singing range for most people. Nothing is perfect or exact. There is no one magical frequency. The only way to hit such a frequency is to sing Portamento and you will be bound to hit it or the overtones at some point while sliding up and down the scale.

It comes down to what is more comfortable for the singer versus what makes the concert piano sound brighter. Everything is based upon the voice, the primal instrument upon which melody is based, even guitar leads mimic the voice, not the concert piano.

airforceguitar
Thank you so much for injecting a researched and informed perspective on this. Music is a "magical" endeavor, but please, let's get rid of the ridiculous non-scientific claims in music!
Earful
Tibetan singing bowls are specifically designed to the standards of Tibetan medicine, which recognizes winds, orbs, and channels in the body. I think that making a statement that "the Tibetans could never have done this intentionally" misses the basis of Tibetan physiology. It is based upon a conception of energy. I myself have an old Tibetan bowl which is exactly design to stimulate the Heart Chakra. If stimulating that Chakra happens to exactly match the 432hz frequency, then that would be evidence for the case that those who emotionally respond to 432hz. A composer friend of mine thinks it is all rubbish. I find that 432 is warmer and less stressful, i use 440 for the electric and 432 for the folk guitar. It is easier to hit the higher notes. Much better to drop a whole step to about 426.
Bautista
But the thing is that you can't never have an exact frequency. If you have a good toner you will be able to set it to 432.0±0.1, but with the technology they had, even if they didn't have a notion of the frequency they search, but only on how it sounds, they could have like 430±10hz top (and I really doubt you could be that good at crafting it)
Craig
Earful, I would be grateful if you could reference your comments relating to the Tibetan Singing Bowls.

“Tibetan Singing Bowls are specifically designed fo the standards of Tibetan medicine........” where is your source for this?

Todd
On board with you here about these theories supporting 432. However, I think there is a better and more interesting avenue to explore. There is supporting evidence of 432 and its related numbers concerning the ratios of the earth and ancient cultures that build structures to reflect this. Not surprisingly...the pyramids of Egypt. If there is any validity to this frequency being "special" it probably comes from this conversation. Graham Hancock is one person among many who has compiled some of this information and explored it. Interestingly, I don't believe he has spoken about the frequency. Only the ancient geometry associated with the number 432.
Mihai Sorohan
"We can fix history at will and pick measures by matching theories. We know that the Egyptians used as a basis for measuring the "Small Cubit", equal to about 45 cm (24 fingers); inherited from the "Nippur Cubit", which found use in Sumer about 6,000 years ago. The conventional value of this 24 fingers cubit is approximately 45 centimeters. The Egyptians of the Old Kingdom used the 28 fingers from the Sumerian division to determine their Royal Master Cubit (or Sacred Cubit) of 52.5 cm. Later, during the 26th dynasty, it was extended to 52.9 cm. The base of the pyramid is 440 Royal Master Cubits, approximately 230.5 meters. There is no 432 anymore, but 440 Cubits! But 440 or 432 should be no concern because Cubits are not Hertz, as discussed in the previous paragraph"

http://www.medson.net/A432hz-myth.html
CalebGrayson
I had so much respect for this informative article until this like:
" Tuning your music to a specific frequency will not unlock cosmic powers, or make your music sound better or worse."

this claim is as much unfounded opinion as the pro-432 claims you spend this whole article refuting!
Mihai Sorohan
Music is a language (pretty much) and the ideas and emotions are carried by construction of the melody, phrasing, arranging, performance...etc, not by the reference pitch.
If I would read a poem with a low voice or high voice, would it make magically change the meaning of the poem?
CalebGrayson
yes. of course it would, because music is not just a language of numbers.
the mathematical abstraction of music — into notes and frequencies and rhythms, these language bits — is a simplification. it can not capture all of music and is not meant to as a map to same scale is not useful. this is why sampling/looping has become its own 'genre' as it contains a complexity that can't be notated or given a single pitch.

the minute you think that a note IS its frequency or that a frequency of sound is only its mathematical value then you make the fallacy that Philosopher Alfred North Whitehead calls misplaced concreteness — you've taken the idea that represents a thing and beloved that idea is the real concrete thing itself.
there has been a shift in education that have moved towards specialization — a lack of broad understanding of the world and a focus on particular areas of study with a bent on technique instead of theory of a particular theory taught without the theory of theory taught. this has led to a rational-materialism that isolates certian fields of learning.
numbers have cardinal value such as 432 being a measure of frequency, but the alps have ordinal value as a single point in a series or a unique place and identity in relation to all other numbers, the 432nd frequency. it's the ordinality where the 'magic' lies. and let me say, if you think the words 'magic' and 'myth' are synonyms for 'irrational' or 'false' then that's clear evidence of my claim that education is lacking in the foundational humanities and moved towards a vocational methodology with a rational-materialistic bias.

I applaud the historical research on 432, but it may be that 432 is emerging in the collective unconsciousness for a reason and people's limited understanding as to why along with intellectual laziness has fabricated these false histories in attempt to bring more legitimacy to the 432 mythos. that doesn't me 432 is not magical or need now or an evolutionary step in man's æsthetic and healing expressions. so please don't shut that notion down simply because you think music Is just numbers. :)
CalebGrayson
sorry for typos. no edits allowed here.
mwchoi
if you think that some magical number will change your music you should quit producing. this so-called "argument" is the exact reason why producers should work on acoustics study, but not on boodooism.
Polarbreeze
Well done Assaf, you describe the situation perfectly.
Larissa Cantoni
Strange how Antonio Stradivari, who lived between 1600 and 1700, was able to build violins in resonant proportions of the harmonic scale that sees A=432Hz (ask a luthier how the proportions of an instrument have to do with the tension of the strings and their vibrational frequency), for example...

Strange how Pythagoras with his monochord was using frequencies concerning the mathematics of 8, using as a reference the8 Hz (third octave above the starting point of 1Hz, from where climbing some octaves up the ladder we get a frequency of 256Hz, which corresponds to a C in the scale where A has a frequency of 432Hz) for therapeutic purposes... In ancient Greece, as already earlier in ancient China, sound was used as medicine, and not for entertainment purposes as today (while we are (re)discovering more and more the therapeutic sound power)...

Strange how in ancient Egypt they were able to build the great Pyramid of in the proportions of the harmonics of 432, and used stones that resonate at 432Hz, like those of many other prehistoric constructions such as Stonegenge or african sound stones...

These are just three examples (everyone is free to make their own research), but it is clear that even before the invention of the tonometer and the modern possibility to measure cycles per second,, thanks to astronomical observations, mathematics, or other, some cultures found a way to measure sound, or to define it, and check its effect on living beings and matter…

The implications and parallels between the microcosm at the molecular and atomic level, and the macrocosm in relation to the measures and distances of the planets and, through the discovery of Cymatics, with sacred geometry and the platonic solids, have only been rediscovered in modern times, but several great cultures of the past already had this knowledge!

Tuning systems such as the Equal Temperament and others, are applicable starting from a pitch of note, as is the A, at any frequency arbitrarily established, while the 432Hz Concert Pitch is called "Scientific Tuning" because of its correlations with mathematics, nature and the universe.

Consider that in the past, every family that was building musical instruments, before the mass production started, had its own pitch of intonation, as I was told by a musicologist, which varied from one family to another, according to what each luthier felt to be more correct... For example, some tuned their instruments to the singing of the birds. Every time a new instrument was built, it was tune to the previous one so that they could play together!

Giuseppe Verdi at one point decided to tune the note A to 432Hz because he had understood its mathematical and scientific implications (and not for cosmic and / or spiritual reasons)...

At a certain point of history, with the beginning of globalization on a musical level, and the development of industrial mass production of musical instruments, an international standardization was necessary, so that musicians of different nations could play together.
PS: See the intonation of Spanish Baroque music that was even at 415Hz... ;)

It is true that the brainwaves show a wide range of frequencies, but it is at 8Hz that the left and right hemispheres are working in perfect sync ...

Cymatics do not provide proof images that 432Hz is the frequency of the water or the universe (as written in the article).
It simply makes the effect of sound on matter visible, and the fact that certain harmonic frequencies form more precise patterns than other frequencies.., be they water waves or sand / salt designs on a metal plate.

It is curious that the global trend among orchestra musicians is to further raise the intonation frequency: In the US they are using frequencies between 444 and 450Hz, which implies, for example, that Pianos need to be reinforced of the with steel plates (to resist to the string's higher tension), and the life-span of concert Harps is reduced to a few years (as the extreme tension of the strings shortens the column)… In fact, we notice how the wood used to build these instruments, shows us the frequency of the natural concert pitch that should be used!

In the same way, a higher concert pitch frequency affects the vocal cords of the lyric singers, that see their vocal chords irreparably damaged after only a few years (and singers that can produce such high-pitched sounds are rare).

However music is also a personal experience and a matter of taste, hearing and individual sensitivity.

I personally prefer music tuned to A = 423Hz :) and I also have been able to notice a big difference for its calming and centering effect on hyperactive and autistic children…
Bautista
Where did you get those facts?
Pierre_Engel
Good morning to all. I wish to add my 2-bit piece about this "magical number" of 432, taking as a reference Joseph Campbell's conference on gods and goddesses of the Neolithic period (a Peter Donat video of the late 80's). Campbell mentions the Indian Puranas composed between 400 and 1000 CE, where a cycle of time lasts 432,000 earthly years and is called a "Yuga", each Yuga being registered is a "Maha Yuga" (great cycle) of 4,320,000 earthly years. Each Maha Yuga is registered in a "Kalpa" of 4,320,000,000 earthly years... In the Rig Veda (written in 1500-900 BC), on reads: "the 12-ray wheel where 720 sons of Agni are established", where 720*12 = 8,640 or a half-cycle of 4320.
The height of the Great Pyramid of Kheops is originally 146,7m high, which corresponds to the length of the Earth radius at the scale 1:43,200. Coincidence? In the Islandic Grimnismal, drawn from the poetic Edda composed between the 8th and the 12th centuries, the Walholl or Walhalla, palace of the paradise of Wotan, or Odin, is structured by 540 gates. During the "Day of the Wolf", 800 warriers will go through each of these gates to fight the ennemies of the gods in a great total annihilation. This will be the end of times, before a new cycle. 540*800=432,000: it is the same number.
In the 3rd century BC, the second book of Berosus, a chaldean priest who was translting the Babylonian myths into Greek, tells the story of the Creation with the 10 legendary kings before the deluge of Utnapishtim (the Babylonian Noah) of the Kingdom of Kish. Between the Creation and the Utnapishtim Deluge, 432,000 years have passed. The Sumerians, who did invent the sexagesimal base, but were also using the decimal base, are considering that a "sar" (a universe) lasts 60*60=3,600 years, and that 120 sars make up 432,000 years, and that 60 * 432 make a "great cycle" of 25,920 years. That figure corresponds to the cycle of the precession of the Equinoxes.
10 legendary kings for 432,000 years, this makes long-lived kings...!!
In the Bible, Genesis, there are also 10 patriarchs between Adam and Noah (the biblical Deluge), and it is said that at the time of the Deluge, Noah is exactly 600 years, 2 months and 17 days old... The 10 patriarchs are listed and are: Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalaleel, Jered, Henokh, Metuselah (Matusalem), Lemek and Noah. The text allows the computation of the date of birth of each of these patriarchs, which is: Time of the Creation T for Adam, and then/ +130, +235, +325, +395, +460, +622, +687, +874 and so T+1056 for Noah. Noah being 600 years old at the time of the Deluge, the date of the Deluge is T+1656 years (after the Creation). This number of 1656 years, if transcribed in "creation periods of 7 'days' each" corresponds to 86,400 "periods", or 2 cycles of 43,200 periods each. We find here again the 432 number and its double 864 as in the Rig Vedas.
The question of linking 432 to 864 is to be considered with respect to the ancient culture of the "wise men" and priests/magicians of the Sumer / Babylonian / Ancient Greece periods, where the "Cosmic Order" was at the center of the question of Man's position in the Universe. At this time, it was thought that there was a correspondance between the cosmic laws and the Human existence on Earth, and that Humanity was a reversed image of the Cosmic Order: What is above is as what is below (but as a "reversed" or "inverted" image). So there is a 432 "time" unit for what is below, and another 432 "time" for what is above, the whole Cosmic Order being ruled by a great cycle of 432 * 60 = 25,920 years or 1 revolution of the "world axis" (known today as the precession of the equinoxes).
And Campbell concludes that for a Man at rest, the heart beats on average at 60 beats per minute or 3600 beats per hour - and the "hour" was known at the time of the Ancient Sumerians, Babylonians and Egyptians, as the day was split already in twice 12 hours. For the Egyptians, the day was 12-hour long and the night was also 12-hour long, so these hours were not lasting the same "time" in winter as opposed to summer - but nevertheless, one full day was always 24 hours with 12 hours for the (masculine, sun-driven) day and 12 hours for the (feminine, lunar-driven) night. The Greek Odyssey has 24 "songs", each representing such a "time" in the wandering of Ulysse. In other words, the human heart beats 43,200 times during the (masculine) day, and 43,200 times during the (feminine) night.
So this figure of 432 represents the rythm of the universe that connects Man to God (or gods), by being the link between the cosmic precession of the equinoxes and the fundamental rythm of Mankind. It is then no surprise that Pythagore ended-up advocating that the "music of the spheres" was related to this figure.
Some bibliography of interest: The Shape of the Ancient Thought, Conparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies, Thomas McEvilley, 2002.
CalebGrayson
excellent! thank you so much Pierre.

I had just graduated with my BA in analytic philosophy, mathematics, and Greek which was taught in an unusually analytic way.

it wasn't until I owned a coffeehouse/art space in Detroit that I was confronted with the magical nature of numbers in astrology — who's mechanism really is best described as the music of the the spheres and only deeply understood by a musician with a theoretical foundation.

my brain was totally wired for analytic thought and it took me years to 'get' archetypal image, the symbolic depth of meaning that transcends pure rationality.

Astrology is the mother of all esoteric sciences because it entirely integrates the rational with the non-rational. if one discounts magical systems as being non-rational (or unreal) with prejudice then that is itself an irrational belief.

one who does this has just as limited a grasp on reality as one who accepts all magical ideas without a critical eye.

there is a middle place — riding the line of in and outside the rational divide — a jazz of understanding that can't be explained only experienced. can't be notated. can't be recorded. can't be broken down into parts.

— though all these techniques can lead one there.
Larissa Cantoni
Thank you so much for all this precious information, Pierre Engel!
Bautista
All this numerology is nice, but there is something that you should take in count, the units. The number "432" or any other number doesn't represent anything, since 432hz depends on the hz, wich depends on the second, which is completely arbitrary. The only number that could in principle have some intrinsic importance are relations between quantities of the same units, since that would be a pure numbers and not a relationship between two distinct units, which will always be arbitrary
barfoden
Interesting article..

I have given this a lot of thought lately,, Been playing in different rock/pop coverbands for more than 20 years.. And is a deep baritone myself so I always played guitar as my voice does not seem to fit well with pop/rock music that sings rather high..

My present leadsinger struggles a bit with our material,, He is a baritenor or high pitched baritone and sings a lot of cover stuff in their original key, WE talked about detuning the guitar and bass to E-flat transposing all our material down a half note.. But to my ears a lot of songs sound less dramatic or energetic now when he sings then a half note deeper... Truth be told a lot of songs sound closer to my sweet spot now... I have at one single occasion a long time ago sang all his songs live detuned a half note by tuning the guitars and basses to e-flat, which we are in the mist of doing at the moment... I got through but just borderline... :-)

THis made me think that there is some truth to 432Hz and voice registrations.. A less dramatic downtune to 432Hz would make my leadsinger get through with less voice fatigue but still be more around his sweet spot than down at 415Hz downtune.. I think the voice and the entry to the passaggio is key.. For me it is a lot of singing on the E4 note (A4=440Hz) that wears me down,, For my leadsinger it is the F4 note that in the long run gives him trouble,,, Downtuning to 432Hz makes those passaggio note sit a little deeper more connected to the note below. In 440Hz my E4 note or his F4 note needs more weight lifted of the note which in a live situation can be difficult to do..
Rich G
Great article, Assaf, though it looks like you read my own article on the subject first and based the form and outline of yours on mine! Some of the information in our articles is the same, some different, so it's worth reading both for a greater perspective.
http://soundhealingforum.discussion.community/post/a432hz-truth-lies-and-creative-story-telling-7786262

Unfortunately, both Pierre Engel's and Larissa Cantoni's comments above perpetuate some of the false 'evidence'. Many of the points that both of you mention are simply not true. Instead of copying and pasting here, please read my article for clarification of some of those points.

There's nothing wrong with being 'wrong'. The problem comes when when refusing to update or change ones perspective when confronted with more accurate information - a common human trait, we've all done it. As Jon Anderson wrote in the Yes classic 'Perpetual Change': "As truth is gathered I rearrange...."
nanda
It's not about 440 or 432.. It's about The Audible scales which have been created. The twelve-tone equal temperament system A.K.A A=440hz has great limitations for musical expression. Any one can say what they want but ultimately the equal temperament system was made for modern ease with no regard to the natural world which is non constricting. While one has in just Intonation (AKA non constricting micro tonality) a large number of natural audible intervals available, one has in the twelve-tone equal temperament system (A.K.A- A=440) only 12 fixed intervals are to use. So to conclude Western musicology has made a prison for its music. It has locked it out from a vast universe of sounds and potential musical expressions. In addition, it has marred the harmony and beauty of the natural sound intervals by distorting their natural relationship. It has even conditioned musicians to hear music that are in accordance with natural harmonics as out of tune! By incorporating western musical instruments and equal temperament tuning into the ancient just intonation Gandharva Vedic tuning (Which most modern musicians have no idea about) is like night and day. And yes if we look to reference the modern measurable WAV of the seat of A in the Gandharva scale we will see it is closer to 432. In comparison equal temperament looses the original strength and purity of the music and musical mystics would say it sounds distorted and polluted. It is like bringing the music away from natural law, while it should do the opposite, bring us more in tune with natural law and Beauty, but hey this is the world we live in today.
Eber Nakamura Gomes
Fiction: This discussion will end someday.

Fact: Stubborn humans.
Sana-sol
There is no smoke without fire they say.

That 432 is the Note of the Universe / God / or Water I am not sure of but it's certain that 1/432*6*6*6=3 where three there might have been though of as the various trinities in religions.

Besides 440 is calculated from the goldean mean phi of 360 with square-root of two, into the equation (4*(sqrt(2))/((1/c)*5/2)) i.e. 137.5*sqrt(2), though of course this might be a coincidence.

But 440 we must remember is 288 in octa-decimal (other way around actually), so it's further to think that 288 is sort-of inverse (1/x) Schuman Resonance, doubled, times synergetics constant 6 (1.125). Though only if Shuman Resonance is really actually 1/128..though this might be a co-incidence too and it's not really logical to think in decimal about octa-decimal system.

432 is 660 in Octal. But using this logic we arrive at 666 octal is 438 (in decimal) , and so that might be the next tuning.

And that last thing above isn't as far out as it sounds. Randal Roffe says the best tuning is to lower c a bit down towards Bb, Though we prefer 437.4 HZ which is from 1/(2**11)*6**7 so 136.6875*sqrt(2) in the relativity equation,

The Universe? If we really wanted a frequency tuned to that maybe we could use ((288/625)*2**3*6**2) since 625 was about the Higgs Boson (a.ka. The God particle) and again 288 claimed by some to represent anti-matter at least.
Eenor
Add up the inner angles of all platonic shapes and solids and you get a perfect F# Major chord in 432 tuning. Also in law of doubling (1+1=2 2+2=4 etc) you get perfect C's (256 512 1080 on up) in 432 tuning, which relates to factor 9 concepts and cell division. Much more elegant than 440 when you consider shapes create matter, does it matter? It does to me when I consider sympathetic resonance with the all and everything. Having said that, as a musician, I find all frequency relevant, and enjoy a bit of varietal drift from time to time, tuning to the moment.
Maxim
it is better to test the 432Hz sounding self. I would recommend a free iOS audio player www.alphasxplayer.com This let playback music in 432Hz instrument tuning and experiment with it
Micah
It's hard to believe (okay, maybe not so hard) that people are so enamored with numerology that they ignore the fact that, as the article points out repeatedly, the numerical value of a frequency is dependent on the length of one second in time, which is arbitrary. You could take any pleasing number you like and decide it's the key to the universe, but if we happened to measure time in seconds that were any shorter or longer than the standard second, a given frequency would be measured to be a different cycles per second (Hertz).

THAT SAID, *because* frequencies themselves are absolute, the article actually commits a fallacy when it says that ancient people could not have tuned their instruments to a certain frequency we now measure in Hertz: of course they could have happened on a certain frequency which we now measure to be 432 Hertz; they just wouldn't have identified as such.

THAT said, I'm not seeing any evidence that anyone did center on that specific frequency, and besides, for that to mean anything, they would have had to use the exact same major scale system as in Western music. For those that did use Western scales, before the Middle Ages there's no particular reason they would have used A4 as the centrally tuned pitch, which means you'd need to know the pitches of every note in a scale to know whether the equivalent of A4 was set a certain frequency.

HOWEVER, I do prefer 432 Hz myself.
Fact or fiction
FICTION: You think that all human beings on Earth are inferior to you (in some way) and that you can write utter rubbish and get away with it.

FACT: You're an idiot.
Gandalfthe5000ator
You said you've added pitch control to the software. What about functionality that let's me sweep between base pitches through the course of the song being played. A "modulation". A song starts in 432Hz A and ends in 440Hz A.
John Rando
OK. What about the frequency tables? If you tune A to 432 then all other note are integer numbers (C=256 Hz, D=288 Hz, E=324 Hz, F=352 Hz, G=384 Hz, H=486 Hz). If you tune A to 440 then every other note is a fractional number (C=261.626 Hz, D=293.665 Hz, E=329.628 Hz... and so on.
The full frequency table for A=440 is here: http://img.sadistic.pl/pics/ed7a0bc8fd36.jpg )

Doesn't it mean something?
Peter
Hahaha. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading these comments, almost more than the article itself. I'm an established multi-grammy nominated multi-platinum selling pianist/composer. I've been playing in A440 for 50 years. A year ago, after some nudging from a few friends and some curiosity on my part, I tuned my piano down to A432. When i first played it I was disappointed. It seemed kinda flat and uninteresting and I was pretty sure I was gonna tune back up to A440 next time. But the next time (a day later) I played it I really felt like there was something about it that I liked. I found myself really enjoying it for some reason. I felt like my instrument (7ft grand) was just humming as I played and I found myself getting lost in playing and improvising more than I had in a long time . . . perhaps ever. I can't honestly say that I KNOW that it's because of the A432 tuning. I really don't KNOW. I've heard all the myths about the tuning and have spent some time on-line researching. But I've never found anything tangible or scientific to support the claims of A432 tuning advocates. I just finished a recording in A432 that I'm releasing this September and was hoping to write something intelligent in the liner notes about the tuning. I can't find any "scientific" support but I somehow enjoy the feeling of it. I DO think that the constant raising of concert pitch is a problem. It would be better to increase one's composing and performance skills to give the music a brighter edge than to keep raising pitch. That's gonna have to ceiling-out somewhere. I plan on recording other albums with other instruments tuned to A432 as well. I'm gonna trust my instincts and do what feels good to me. Why not? It's my music. It's just too bad that I won't be able write anything tangible in the liner notes about the proven superiority of A432. But again, I have to say that the debate is very interesting. I specifically enjoyed NANDA's comments and wonder how I could explore the Vedic tunings and with what instruments? Is there a "user friendly" instrument that I could work with to explore that and expand my ear? I do think that western music is limited and does desensitize one's ear to natural law and sounds. I also really resonated with MICAH's comments about the measurement and names because all forms of that are relative and subjective to the measurement system and therefore man-made, whereas natural sounds and frequencies are absolute. So, again, it's all very interesting. I'm gonna stay with A432 for now even if it's just to say a definitive "no" to this sickening trend of "faster, tighter, harder and more is better".
Rich G
I'm guessing Peter 'K'....?!
Many years ago we spoke about something, something music world related, when you were living in upstate NY. Have you read my article, the original one that this article heavily 'borrowed' from?
I think it's great that you enjoy the lower tuning on your piano, and I also think it's great that you have nothing scientifically tangible to say about it in the liner notes! Why would it be bad not to have something, other than to play into the 432 marketing hype? You're an artist. Artists are the 'scientists' of emotion, feeling, spirit, etc and we speak a different language. The simple fact that you are prefering your piano tuned lower is enough. Write about that, the emotion/feeling/spirit aspects you experience. I'll bet anyone twelve dollars that if you tuned it to 431Hz or 433Hz you would be having the exact same experience. Music and the great mystery and magic of life will never be nailed down to simplistic 'cure-alls' like the 432 story.

In fact, a study was done where people were played a variety of music examples where a piece was played at a particular tuning and then the identical piece played lower. In EVERY case participants preferred the lower tuning - regardless of what the lower or higher tuning was. In other words, if the lower tuning was 440Hz, that was preferred. If the lower tuning was 424Hz while the higher was 432Hz, all participants preferred the lower 424Hz. (If I had the link at hand I'd post it.) Our perceptions are relative, not absolute, and certainly not tied to a number concept that doesn't actually exist (i.e., sound waves don't actually occur as quantized and numbered phenonena).

Here's my article, published before this one was:
http://soundhealingforum.discussion.community/post/a432hz-truth-lies-and-creative-story-telling-7786262

Peace and best wishes.
Rich
Andrew Marino
Hello chaps...wow! there are some very knowledgeable dudes on this forum...I don't know the first thing about Music or in fact can even read it!...but I tried Tuning my guitar to the said Tuning and found the guitar sounds, to me ,much more vibrant and relaxing...I did think, this is just me subconsciously reacting to hyperbole from the Internet so I did an impromptu experiment around my mates house with his piano and a Keyboard he had in the same room ...we got all the people there to choose which chord in C they liked the sound of in first 440 and then in 432 ....there wasn't a split at all,they all liked 432...i can hear you now ..it was probably a fluke!....mever mind, you as previously explained by the learned chap there are many inflections/Tunings also to be taken into consideration and it's great to experiment eh!....I am happy to stick with it and many people tell me they find my music very relaxing even though I don't mention the frequency!....
Rich G
Andrew,
See my comment above yours. Of course it's not a fluke. Our perceptions seem to be relative. What is interesting to me about this, in the 18th/19th centuries it seems that people, or at least musicians (most of whom are people as well!) experienced that raised pitch was more desireable as it made their instruments and music brighter, louder, more stimulating. In the contemporary world it's the lowering, softening, more relaxing that is the intuitive desire (in spite of what is predominant in pop culture). Could this be a natural response to the conditions of the world we have created?
Andrew Marino
I agree Rich...some of us want a softer kinder World around us and music can be an uplifter although we each have a different perspective and possibly hear it differently!....I will continue to use this particular frequency as I get so much positivite feedback. Regards..
Larynx Suit
Most of these "fiction" arguments are highly bloated with theoretical subjection. No one has the time to go into each resource and milk out the biased thought of the author and why the article itself is unscientific. I would venture to say that the author, Assaf Dar Sagol, has a primary interest in secular philosophy. FACT, The phonograph, present everywhere modern revolution took place, played exclusive 432 hertz. FACT, the worlds oldest pipe organs still playing today are tuned to 432 hz. FACT, 20 year experimentation has shown conclusive evidence that 432 is highly preferred to 440 as per Maria Renold. FACT, Royal Rife had an above 95% healing rate, using frequency, as recorded in medical journals. FACT, there are innumerable recordings on vinyl predating 1939 that are recorded in 432 hz. FACT, the geometry of 432 in vibration plates is more symmetrical while maintaining higher articulated contours than 440 vibrating plates. Should I continue? Come on Sagol! Where is your HARD evidences?
Mar
This forum is absolutely the most. Although I'm not formally trained in any of the arts, I have enjoyed the comments on this page immensely. The fact that all things are connected at a cellular level is what drives communication in all aspects.
Sound is as visual as taste, and touch and to a great extent has not been given it's rightful place in our existence in quite some time. A/432 likens itself to some of Nikola Tesla's eletrical experiments, where he would bathe himself with 8 hrz and claim afterwards that he felt refreshed. Also stating the walking barefoot on the earth established a comunion with the earth, through
Robert Reinhardt
Possibly stepping on toes here, but I'm noticing a little pattern here; people are forgetting the line between logic and belief (not to say belief is illogical, just questionable at best). It seems that when you look for something, and are persistent enough to find it, you will find it; however, others will most likely not find what you do. For example; 42: the number of the universe. The average, everyday person will not think 42 is a significant number, age or occurrence. But there are those who find he number everywhere. But the same could be said for the number 13. Or 432. The debate draws a parallel, I believe at least, to the colloidal silver debate. In my opinion and experience, it does not work. But my father-in-law uses the substance and claims to feel better each day. To state as fact that "432Hz is magical and contains healing properties" is wrong. However, if you make the statement a personal one, who can argue? "I find 432Hz to aid me in healing." The case then becomes yours, not an over-generalized suffocating blanket. When you believe that something will work, or that something is more then what others think of it, then you will find that for you, it's everything you think it is. In my opinion, I like the sound of 432, but it lacks the intensity than can be found within 440, and does not sound as structured as 436. I'm not going to drudge up numbers to support my opinion, because that's all it is. It's a belief that some may not find logical.
MrJM
Stop thinking. Open your heart. Feel.
Sana-sol
Yes, no, this is really science not religion sort of or rather poking at the brain as a sensory organ, just in a solemn or considered manner as such the basic formula is 16x/5 .. where if x is small phi i.e. 137.5 you get 440 hz some kind of new try at the brain , and for the old standard 432 x is 135: the smallest number with exactly 7 representations as a sum of 4 positive squares:

135==1^2+2^2+3^2+11^2==1^2+2^2+7^2+9^2==1^2+3^2+5^2+10^2==1^2+6^2+7^2+7^2
==2^2+5^2+5^2+9^2==3^2+3^2+6^2+9^2==5^2+5^2+6^2+7^2

What we should, endavour to do is really to find out if x as this phi or these squares ..etc..the brain..we would have to find a neurologist; a pretty kindred one, to decide this..if it's possible?
Josh Licht
Hey guys,

much appreciate the above article and comments, I have grown weary of listening to musicians talk about 432. Y'all should play the Irish Uilleann pipes for a refreshed perspective on tuning....Spend half the night tuning up and the other half playing out of tune....
For me the most important components of 'Feeling something' when playing or listening to music is as follows - genre, melodic contour, harmonic components/accompaniment, instrumental timbre, note choice and placement, timing, groove, lyrical integrity (if lyrics are used) and the skill and commitment of both the performer and listener alike...to name but a few elements. Music will always be magical and cosmic....and enough of a mystery.... without worrying about a fundamental base frequency.
Life is too short, the most noble and deeply spiritual thing you can do is pursue and acknowledge the truth.(what is the 'truth'?....a debate for another time....and perfection - not for this lifetime!)
Chuck Evans
I think most people are anxious to find some meaning to their music. So much so that they grasp at over simplification like this one frequency that must have some significance. Consider this, our world's natural frequency might be 7 hertz or even 432 hertz, however, the prevalent frequency on this planet is 60 hertz. That is the frequency of alternating current. That frequency permeates everything. The devices you listen to music upon all operate on it. And yet, not only do we not hold this in high regard, we are told that being exposed to electrical fields at this 60 hertz is potentially damaging to our health. Simply because a particular frequency is common or influential does not make it good. Down tuning against our common 440 hz will always sound mysterious and foreign. It is a departure from our norm. Nothing holy or spiritual about it. Your spirit is based on your thoughts and not the prevalent frequency around the human body. None of the claims about 432 Hz. on this page have come with any confirmation at all. How do we know what the base frequency of Mozart's work was? Or any other great composer? Do we have a recording of their perfomance to examine? I believe the great composers would have been disgusted to be subjected to such limitations about their work. Snap out of it. We might as well worship a car horn as believe in this.
Rich G
Chuck Evans, I agree with what you are saying, and I suspect you will find a lot to agree with in my article "432Hz: Truth, Lies and Creative Story Telling".

However, regarding Mozart, we do know what he tuned to because we have his tuning fork - and guess what - it was NOT 432Hz. Mozart's tuning fork measures at 421.6Hz. And another 'big surprise'.... this tuning reference was within the common range of what musicians were tuning to in his day. Anything around 432Hz would have been rather high in Mozart's era and there is no record of it being a standard for anyone at that time (and nearly never actually).
It should also be noted that there was no accurate way to measure frequency in Mozart's era. It is my guess that Mozart's tuning fork is the frequency it is simply because that is what he liked.

Here's my article, FYI in case you are interested:
https://soundhealingforum.discussion.community/post/a432hz-truth-lies-and-creative-story-telling-7786262

I like the idea of worshipping a car horn..... but think of the conflict that would generate and the warring factions that would gather around different horns! ;-)
D
Seriously? Forgive me for not getting past your second argument, but since your first was entirely stupid and the second was based on the first, I simply extrapolated and decided to comment.

A man in Tibet in 5000BCE does NOT need to know what a second is to arrive at a sound that (in TODAY'S world) is measured as 432Hz.

My point? Don't try to use logic to explain or dispell something by using faulty logic.
Raven
One more thing to consider this study was conducted at the Centre for Biofield Sciences by 3 Doctors- https://www.scribd.com/doc/202351974/Spiritual-Results-Music-Study
MENDADENT
7/11/2018

wow! some very gifted writers, and thinkers.

i am a self taught guitar,banjo,harmonica,mandolin and fiddle player.
with that being said wouldnt everyone agree that we humans are hardwired to know what sounds harmonious and what doesn't? i mean wouldn't a klinker sound just as bad to the person that couldn't play an instrument as it does to say...me? or anyone else that plays?

interesting article and i'm glad i came across it.i stumbled upon the site while researching what frequencies notes were in.then i got off on tesla and his math chart, and then 1,2,4,8,7,5 and 3,6,and 9 lol
Edsunn
The author of the article doesn't understand the difference and distinction between pitch and frequency. Not a good start. He doesn't understand any more than the 432 advocates that humans or other fauna -can only discern pitch-, which can be evaluated as frequency by contrived means. His counter-arguments that "They didn't have seconds in those days! The couldn't measure frequency! So they couldn't have tuned to 432!" are so ridiculous and absurdly ignorant. They could have tuned to any pitch, which might or might not have measured as 432Hz by modern instruments.

Another hint to author; setting up your own cherry-picked weak and absurd "432Hz cures cancer!" examples to knock down does not make for a strong argument on your part. You have to do better than that.

It would also be helpful to add to the discussion that the whole A-440 standard was brought about by brass instrument makers in the 19'th century who wanted their instruments to sound as bright as possible. There was nothing the least bit 'scientific' about this standard, either, so making all this hoo ha about how 'unscientific' the 432 standard is is meaningless. Unless one thinks that "I just want my trumpet to sound really bright and really loud!" is a more scientifically valid argument for a standard of pitch than earth cycles, universal rhythms, etc.

I personally don't care about the mathematical ratio arguments, myself, but my innate ability of absolute pitch has almost always had me feeling that things were just a tad too high-pitched, though it took some years for that to sink in. I can't explain why that is.
Shellsj
NASA has recorded B-flat emanating from Black holes and I have detected points where a tone generator at sub audible frequencies generates an interference pattern with background noise which disappears at 7.2 hz (B-flat) and 10.8 Hz (F, exactly 7.2 x 3/2, a musical 5th higher). A as 432 Hz happens to exist exactly as the harmonic 3rd of this F frequency (10.8 hz x 5 = 54 hz, and up a few octaves = 432 Hz. See my blog, HarmonicsOfNature.com for more information.
Rich G
NASA has recorded what they loosely claim to be a "B-flat" extending away from one black hole, the Perseus. The pressure waves are not emanating from the black hole but extending from around it, and they haven't been detected as sound but seen visually in gas clouds.. I've not seen anywhere where NASA gives the exact frequency (quite possibly because they don't have an exact frequency), thus we have no idea of the "tuning". Have you seen an exact number quoted anywhere? Additionally, looking at the visual evidence NASA provides, there isn't an even periodicity to the waves that would create a note. Further, the frequency of the sound wave is around 10 million years, though again, doesn't appear to be a constant frequency. Therefore I'd take the "B-flat" idea with a huge grain of salt!

I ask these questions: at what point is a pressure wave an actual "sound"? Does a pressure wave with a frequency of one cycle per 10 million years constitute a "sound"? Pressure waves become "sound" when there is a receptor and a processor (brain) to translate it into the experience of sound. Is a pressure wave a "sound" if no one and no thing can actually hear it?
There is no "sound" being transmitted through space in the sense that we understand sound being transmitted here on Earth. The near vacuum of space does not contain enough substance of random particles in order to transmit it.
Nice idea about the Bb, but NASA's own "pop science" articles are often click-bait-ish and misleading. I really wish their PR department would write them at a slightly higher intelligence level.
Shellsj
Thanks Rich, your comments are all completely sensible but I only mention the NASA B-flat because it corroborates an individual finding I have made for which I have posted a video on the blog link I provided. This experience with a tone generator did find specific frequencies of 5.4, 7.2 and 10.8 Hz which seem to evidence an interference pattern with other, “background” sub acoustic vibrations at these exact frequencies. And these exact frequencies do have a harmonic relationship to A = 432 Hz. Rather than me recreate the blog here, please check out what I’ve found: harmonicsofnature.com
Rich G
Julian,
Listening to your video, it is only at 10.8Hz that I hear the oscillation sound come to a halt. I still hear it there at 5.4 and 7.2. Also, if the beat was a difference tone between the tone generator note and another tone (i.e., the background sub-acoustic vibration you suggest) then we'd be able to time the tempo of it. If it comes to halt, that is, in unison at 10.8Hz then at 9.8Hz it would be beating at a frequency of 1 per second. There is a brief pause at 10.0 as you move your finger. In that moment the pulse I hear is much faster than 1 cycle per second.

What exactly are we listening to? Is that oscillation sound coming out of the speaker on your phone?
Are you saying that you believe the phone app tone generator is actually producing sub-audible frequency tones (the app program may be creating it electronically but is the phone mechanics capable of actually producing it?), and that the oscillation interference pattern is occurring in the air between the generator tone and the "background vibrations"?
Obviously something is creating that oscillation but I'm not convinced it is what you think it is.
Thank you for sharing your inquiry.
Shellsj
Hi Rich - there are two sounds, and listening to the video on headphones helps discern them. There’s the actual tone (which at 10.8 Hz is more like a fast drumming sound) and there’s the whooshing sound. It’s easiest to detect the whoosh stopping at 10.8 Hz, but if you focus on the whoosh sound you can also hear it stop at 7.2 Hz and 5.4 Hz. I wasn’t able to hear it at any other frequencies. Like tuning a guitar string to another guitar string, you hear an interference pattern that corresponds to how how out of tune one string is compared to another until they are precisely the same and that cycle of interference stops. Were it not also for the fact that these frequencies are a musical fifth apart, include A =432 Hz as a harmonic, are all mystical numbers from Vedic texts and all are modulus 9, and that ancient flutes and bells and moderns horns are tuned to B-flat, that cymatics seem to form at 345.6 Hz (an F several octaves above 10.8 Hz), and that the “difference notes” created by playing various combinations of the “Solfeggio” frequencies correspond to a large degree to the frequencies of the harmonic series taken from these two frequencies I discovered, I would write this off as an artefact of the technology (the tone generator, the phone and the Bluetooth headphones.). But with all these coincidences I am prone to believe that there is a harmonic series of ultra low frequencies that permeate existence and that with a low frequency generator we can produce an interference pattern which reveals them; and that before Equal Temperament and the 440hz arbitrary standard of today, others before us found a way to discern these frequencies and based their music and their philosophy upon them. Of course, there could be other explanations, but the items above which I detail more at harmonicsofnature.com is at least an interesting collection of evidence and might possibly be the gateway to a reawakening of what music should be - a healing, realignment of ourselves to the cosmos, which modern civilisation clearly needs!
Good vibes
I have made the switch to 432 and I love it . I play Acoustic gigs and had Harmonicas custom tuned to 432 by Suger Cain in the U.K.. I find it very relaxing on my vocals and my body in general. Try it and see for yourself!
Good vibes
I believe it is a higher vibrational frequency
KamiTheMusicBox
Hopping on to add my two cents to the conversation. Last year, while I was still in college, I was studying harp as my secondary instrument (I had originally gone to school to study it as my primary, but that's a different story for another time) and was invited to participate in my dear friend's sound healing lecture. Because of my height (or lack thereof) I was accustomed to using the school harp that was the shortest, a Lyon and Healy semi grand made in the year 1918. His name is Samuel "Sam" Milligan haha. He's the oldest harp at this university and not very well loved aside from myself and a couple other students through the years. I got permission to tune him down to 432 Hz for the sound healing lecture, and had a very interesting experience.

Now, I understand that this next statement cannot be backed up by science. It's kind of irrational. I get it. But Sam really does seem to have a bit of a personality, and his personality is that of a curmudgeon. He's kind of stubborn, doesn't usually take well to changes in the environment or tuning. He's very old, so his best sound is behind him (most concert harps will play out of their best sound after about fifteen years). But I could swear he was enjoying the heck out of being tuned down to 432! His sound was beautiful that night, and in the weeks beforehand while I was trying to get him accustomed to being tuned down, he seemed to want me to tune him even lower than that! Once I started tuning him down to 432, he would go flat quite frequently as if he wanted to be tuned to Baroque standards or something, haha! I'm sure there's a rational explanation for that, but in the moment it almost seemed as if that little old harp was taking on a life of his own. And he did sound lovely. If you'd like to listen to a 30 minute snip of the two hour long lecture (the harp only features on one song but it is included), here's a link to my friend's YouTube channel and you can check it out.

https://youtu.be/ZldfY_FM6W8

If anyone is still reading these comments, thanks for reading mine! :-D
Shellsj
Lovely account. And I enjoyed your playing
Rich G
KamiTheMusicBox,
I wouldn't say it's irrational. In fact, if Sam the Harp is happier at a lower pitch it is entirely rational. It's simply that the resonance of that instrument is more in alignment with a lower tuning. It may have been made that way or it may be the effect of 100 years of aging. I am certain however that it would have responded the same if you tuned it to 431 or 433 - there is no inherent "magic" in 432. And further, as you said, it seems to prefer being tuned even lower. (Though its frequently going flat may have to do with slippage of the tuning pins.) Just use your ears. Forget about the pitch reference and just tune it to where it sounds best to you - then check the tuning reference and you'll see what Sam likes best. The only problem of course with such tuning is if one wishes to play with other instruments.
Tntroy
As a person who only started studying music theory in 11th grade. when I was struck down by my first and ever lasting episode from bipolar. Meaning that's about as far I got into studying music I ever got. But what I wanted to add was that I am also tone deaf, yet I still love music. Even if I am hearing it incorrectly. This was proven time after time to me. When ever a friend came over my house and picked up my self tuned, using nothing but ear. Guitar. They of course would say I am out of tune, though to me. It sounded perfectly fine. Since that is the way I am always hearing music in the first place. I guess the point I am trying to get at is this.

Does it really matter, which way is the 100% proven scientific way, musical way. Or what ever way it is made? As long as it sounds good, and is pleasing to you and others? And as for saying before a certain time period, time wasn't measured in seconds? Who or what is to say those people didn't know this? I mean they built the freaking pyramids and how many other masterful pieces of art and architecture. Didn't they? How did they manage that, when the wheel hadn't even been invented yet. lol. Maybe they did have wheels, we just have never found one, Maybe they did count time by seconds, and never wrote about it? I just read an article yesterday, I had read many years ago & forgot about. Saying 528 is the perfect or magical number.

That is what I was Googling, when I came across this article. What I had already read also mentioned 432 as well as 440. Which seems to me like with what someone else said. Globalization, that number was forced on us, whether we wanted to accept it or not. lol. I laugh ( lol ) when I say that, but it's more a nervous reaction I have in real life. That I then turn into using lol to represent it online. Because from what I have read about Globalization is, originally the idea of it was the "raise up" the worlds poor. To the level of the average American workers pay level.

But they eventually realized that was going to take way too long to do and would also be way to expensive to do as well ( something someone else in this thread mentioned as the reason for settling on 440 as the magical number. Being MONEY ) So 440 was forced on us all. And now Globalization reversed direction & is lowering the average pay of Americans and those who make a decent wage in other countries. To that of the 3rd world countries. Virtually pennies. Because it's much less expensive to do it that way.

Any way, I found in life over my 57 years alive, as with music? I Love Balance, I Love Harmony. Peace and Harmony. But because I love balance almost as much or even more then any of it? I have to have the ying with the yang. Not one or the other. Too much of one and I feel off balance. It works in every facet of my life as well. Which is why I know for a fact, I developed mental illness, and the specific one I was diagnosed as having. BIpolar, lol. Again sounds kind of ridiculous I know, and what does this have anything to do with the original topic?

I am more inclined naturally to go with what was originally the frequency or tone or what ever it is called. That does what people says it does to them. keeps you in balance, harmony. Yet also allows you to break free, beyond those bounds, if you choose to do so. I never fit into this world, and the harder I chose to try and force myself to? My natural or "mental balance" got all screwed up. What if the music at 440 actually does the same thing to people? And 432 or 528 does the opposite? I mean music is now every where, being used in movies, TV, commercials, elevators, phone systems. You name it. Yeah I know, warning bells for "conspiracy theory" are going off here right? lol.
Jose
These comments are all fine and dandy but I prefer to see things if I can. Wikipedia from the beginning was an open source only recently has it been closed to scholars and professionals; therefore most of the the data is sqweed. Furthermore do you really think the music industry wants people to know any sort of truth. No to the important part, has anyone here seen or done frequency experiments with music on water, sand, etc? These write up are sweet and dandy but there’s nothing like applying actual experiments. It’s astonishing what you see when you use the 432 versus the 440. I mean you really don’t need to discus this topic at ALL once you visualize what happens to these mediums under the different frequencies. Please look it up.
Rich G
" It’s astonishing what you see when you use the 432 versus the 440."
Really? Then please show us your evidence, that would help to support your position greatly, thank you.
If you like to see things for yourself, and as you've asked if anyone here has done frequency experiments - I'll ask you: have you done the experiments?
Cheap meme pictures comparing Cymatic images of 440 to 432 don't count. If you know anything about the process then you know such a comparison is false. If you know anything about frequency then you know those numbers have nothing to do with any sort of reality of sound waves. In other words, there is NOT 432 of anything occuring in a 432Hz tone.... nor any other frequency.
As far as Cymatic images are concerned, they are entirely dependent on the size and shape of the vibrating plate as well as the volume and mass of the vibrated substance (water, sand etc) You can make pretty images for 440, and any other frequency, just as you can for 432. Likewise, you can make chaotic images for 432 just as you can for 440.

This has nothing to do with "the music industry".
This has nothing to do with conspiracy.
The only "conspiracy" is among those that seek to profit off of the 432 delusion by selling "432 products". That conspiracy is real.
In reply to the other post above, one should realize that 432 and 528 are not even in harmony with each other. You need to go with one or the other as your preferred mystical healing tone but not both at the same time.
But if you understand sound waves and what frequency measurements really are, then you know that the numbers are meaningless in the actual experience of sound and music.
cadgbd
In response to the comment below by Bautista:

"All this numerology is nice, but there is something that you should take in count, the units. The number "432" or any other number doesn't represent anything, since 432hz depends on the hz, wich depends on the second, which is completely arbitrary. The only number that could in principle have some intrinsic importance are relations between quantities of the same units, since that would be a pure numbers and not a relationship between two distinct units, which will always be arbitrary"

But the second is not arbitrary is was derived by the Babylonians. See the link below:

Why is a minute divided into 60 seconds, an hour into 60 minutes, yet there are only 24 hours in a day? - Scientific American
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/experts-time-division-days-hours-minutes/

The ancients were smarter than us because they calculated without any computers, they did it in their heads, and their results are uncannily close to results derived by computers.

Here's another fascinating resource that is required reading:

Ernest G. McClain – Musical Adventures in Ancient Mythology
https://ernestmcclain.net/

My acoustic guitar does sound better in standard tuning than 1/2 step down (432) probably because it's resonant frequency is based upon standard tuning. Tuned down to 432 the overall volume is decreased and sounds dead compared to 440. However, an instrument designed to resonate at 432 would be an interesting test!

Someone mentioned that in the days of yore they used to design the instrument based upon the musician's voice which makes sense since the melody is based upon the human voice. Ideally the tuning should be tail9ored to the singer, since melody is based upon the human voice.

One other thing is that playing an instrument tuned to 432 should sound different than one played at 440 and the recording slowed down.

If the 432 deniers seem so irritable maybe it's because of the adverse effect that 440 hz is having on them :) / sarc.

Ultimately, the human ear becomes accustomed to the higher pitched tuning, and people seem to like it fine. They would probably like it better if the instruments were made to resonate at 432, but at this point it seems impractical, that is if you want to be able to easilyu play with others.

Rich G
Dear cadgbd (low C guitar tuning?)

Nowhere in that Scientific American article does it say that the Babylonians derived the 'second', and the reason for that is because they didn't. It wasn't until the Greeks many centuries later that a circle was divided into 360 degrees and then further subdivisions of minutes and seconds were made - for geographical measurement, not for time measurement. And in those eras, even when hours were being measured, the length of the hours were not the same throughout the year - shorter hours in winter, longer in summer, and changing every day - so even if there were 'seconds' of time being measured, which there wasn't or at least we have no knowledge or historical records of, they would not have been standardized.
It wasn't until around 1000AD that the Persian mathemetician and scholar al-Biruni conceptually introduced to time measurement the idea of 'seconds', as well as 'thirds' and 'fourths', but a way to measure them was not developed to well over 500 years later, and not scientifically accurate time measuring of seconds until the early 19th century.

Regardless of who and when, even if the Babylonians had created such accurate timekeeping it still would be man-made, would still be an arbitrary division, one with no foundation in nature. Bautista is correct in what he stated. In the reality of a sound wave there is not any numbered "frequency" associated with it. And also as he indicated or implied, the only "real numbers" are in the relationships between different waves.... the harmonic relationships. For instance, a wave vibrating at a rate 1.5 times the rate of another wave creates the harmony we call a perfect 5th. These relative rates and the harmonies they produce have nothing to do with time measurement or reference frequency.

I do agree with you about the issues with tuning instruments up or down and contemporary instruments being designed for optimal resonance at a 440Hz reference pitch. To tune our guitars down to 432 we'd need a somewhat longer scale length to tune at that lower pitch yet maintain the same string tension.
Recently I tuned one of my stringed instruments down to 432 and kept it that way for two days, playing it about a total of 4 or 5 hours over those two days. Never did it start sounding good to me! It's sound was noticeably and annoyingly dull and lethargic compared to it being tuned to 440.

I like the idea of instruments being designed to best support a singer's vocal range. Great for solo artists, but yes, not so great if one wants to play with others.
cadgbd
Here is a reference to the Babylonians. I posted the wrong one. There are millions of them, just use the internet.

Here's a reference to the Babylonians:

Keeping Time: Why 60 Minutes?
https://www.livescience.com/44964-why-60-minutes-in-an-hour.html

Here's another:

Why are there 24 hours in a day? › Ask an Expert (ABC Science)
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2011/11/15/3364432.htm

Google returned 5,890,000 results for the search terms: "babylonians second time clock".

Here is a fascinating book, a must read, that should answer your questions:

"The Myth of Invariance"
https://ernestmcclain.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/mythsofinvariance_sanscartoonsoptimized.pdf

The point is, that our musical system and (time system) are derived from naturally occurring cosmic cycles and ratios, such as: the orbits of the planets around the sun, which allows for calculation of the year, month, week, day, hour, and second. Please read the book (it is free) before responding to the author.

It only follows that human hearing evolved to hear frequencies as they occur in nature. Shouldn't be all that difficult to understand. Nor should it be difficult to understand how our time system was derived by the ancients who observed the planetary cycles with astonishing accuracy.

Here is another highly recommended fun to read book that will answer your questions:

Harmonic Experience | Book by W. A. Mathieu | Official Publisher Page | Simon & Schuster
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Harmonic-Experience/W-A-Mathieu/9780892815609

"Bautista is correct in what he stated. In the reality of a sound wave there is not any numbered "frequency" associated with it. And also as he indicated or implied, the only "real numbers" are in the relationships between different waves.... the harmonic relationships. For instance, a wave vibrating at a rate 1.5 times the rate of another wave creates the harmony we call a perfect 5th. These relative rates and the harmonies they produce have nothing to do with time measurement or reference frequency."

Bautista may be right about sound waves, but we are no talking about any sound waves, rather about musical sounds, and human hearing.. There are hypersonic and subsonic waves and there are sound waves that are painful or uncomfortable to listen to, as some say about 440 hz tuning. Sure, the same ratios apply across the spectrum, but we are audiophiles interested in pleasing music, not arbitrary "sound waves".

Bautista is right about the ratios, though, and that is why the human ear is able to adjust to the raised 440 frequency. this explains why other cultures that use "just intonation" do not like our standard tuning and visa versa. If you read the book "Harmonic Experience" you will learn how to calculate those overtone frequencies and understand why the Fifth is = 3/2 and the Third = 5/4.

That's all I know about it. If you have any further questions read the two books mentioned above, use the internet, or ask a physics professor, because math is not my bag.

It's great that we agree on designing instruments for the benefit of the singer, but that would limit our ability to play with others. Maybe custom instruments for the entire band? It would drive the producer crazy! But then again, the melody is based on the human voice. My electric guitar sounds great tuned down 1/2 step and probably the electric Bass, too. The 440 concert pitch is designed to enhance the sound of the piano in a classical concert. Some woodwinds etc are tuned 1/2 step down so it gets complicated.

Obviously a standard tuning pitch makes it easier to play with other musicians. It's too bad that they based the standard pitch upon what makes the concert piano sound better, rather than what's easier to sing and is more natural. For acoustic guitar I'll play standard tuning, but with electric can tune down 1/2 step.






But the fact that bands tune down 1/2 step to benefit the singer is clear evidence that the 432 hz is a superior reference tone. It just occurs to me, that in the book "Harmonic Experience" the author explains exactly why the pitch was raised to 440 hz to make the concert piano sound better.
Gilles C
I always thought, from my past readings, that 440 hz was choosen to make the music more lively when played by an orchestra. That’s before I saw articles and videos about meditation frequencies.
I have my own opinion about it and that’s just that, because facts are hard to get on this subject.
But... I can tell you for sure that for me lower is better. I play guitar and sing and I like the sound of my guitar tuned a bit lower when I don’t play with others. Not all sax players like to play in Eb. In fact, I know only one sax player who told me he didn’t mind while another one just moved back and stopped playing...
I was playing in Eb for my voice back then, but had to go back in E to be able to play with others.
But I also hate vocal performers who push their voice too high and sound like crying instead of singing. I prefer a warm voice.
So what does it have to do with 432 hz? Well, I realised that it sounds more natural for me and adopted it after trying it a few times. I like to meditate these days and indeed it does seem to make a difference... and what my wife feels relaxing is not for me, and the reverse is true. So it may be a personal thing ???
Rich G
cadgbd,

Thank you for the various links. Some of them I have read previously but not all.
But I must wonder if there is just a communication misunderstanding between us, or if you aren't thoroughly reading the articles you linked. I'm not assuming this, I'm just questioning, since, in the very first paragraph of that LiveScience article you linked above, it says clearly:
"These smaller divisions of time have been in practical use for only about 400 years"

Only about 400 years. Long after the Babylonians. And they weren't even proposed until the 11th century by Persian scholar al-Biruni, also long after the Babylonians. This information is entirely consistent with what I have been saying and entirely consistent with what I wrote in my well researched 432 article. (Which preceded the article that began this discussion, actually.)

Yes, the Babylonians, and the Sumerians before them, were using base 60 math for counting. I have no argument with that, it is well researched knowledge. But there is zero evidence that they were measuring time in minutes, let alone in seconds. There is no evidence of this, and the article does not suggest any evidence of this. Our modern measurement of time is based on base 60 counting, which has its roots in Sumerian base 60 counting - but this is not at all the same as the idea that the Sumerians or Babylonians were counting time in minutes and seconds with that system. They didn't even have a 24 hour clock.

Yes, of course, our year, month and day are based on naturally occuring cycles - the day being the most indisputably obvious, while the month no longer accurately reflects the moon cycle even as it was based on it.
But the week, hour minute and second are not based on naturally occuring time cycles.
Erk Etn
This was fun reading.
Here's my musical 432 cents (but not 432 1/100s of a half-step).

Much of the current Western music is based on the octave being divided by 12 halftones.
One method to devise a 7-note legitimate scale (meaning containing one form of each of the 7 note names) is based on combining 2 tetrachords by a 2-halfstep connector.
Tetrachords are defined as 4 consecutive note names spanning 5 halfsteps. The 2-halfstep connection is needed to reach the octave.
There are 6 tetrachords as defined above.
Now here is where the fun starts...
Any of the 6 tetrachords can be chosen to start the scale. And, any can be connected to finish the scale. This allows for 36 possible scale forms.
BUT WAIT...
Each scale form can start on any of the 12 halfsteps.
So, 6 tetrachords multiplied by 6 tetrachords equals 72 scale types multiplied by 12 halfsteps equals... Tah-dah... 432 unique 7-note legitimate scales!
(Mic drop)
Gilles C
I like it... good thinking...
Steve
Pyramid and ancient times are mentioned here as if the knowledge base at the time was not up to todays standards.
Far from it...we have actually decended into very primitive waters and lost touch with ourselves and Consciousness. We think civilization has advanced but the opposite is true.
You talk about these instruments of music as if they are inanimate. Why? Because we have lost communication and connection with all things and ultimately ourselves.
Nothing is dead.
Why don't we ask the piano, the harp, the guitar, our mp3 players, our machines what they like to play?
Open up and realize they are quite Conscious and very much a part of us.
Get yourself very very quiet and totally relaxed and have a blank mind without any thought or judgement.....have your instrument of music close to you...let him/her open up to you. Become one!
They will let you know they are Conscious too and how they desire to be played and nourished.
This thread discusses what we listeners want, if we consider not being seperate but unified with our tools the harmony will develop and take place on its own. It not a matter of hz.
There is a whole new and exciting dimension that is waiting to open up and happen just for you.
musicflower
“Each celestial body, in fact each and every atom, produces a particular sound on account of its movement, its rhythm or vibration. All these sounds and vibrations form a universal harmony in which each element, while having its own function and character, contributes to the whole.” ~ Pythagoras

secretsongs
I tuned my guitar to 666hz and an evil force appeared and snapped my guitar string.
Rich G
:-)
Thanks, secretsongs, probably the most important post here yet!
Guitar strings don't lie.
Also important to note that 666Hz is the perfect 5th of A=444Hz, thus it can be concluded without doubt that the European concert tuning of A=444Hz is inherently evil. I repeat: Inherently Evil. XXXXXXXX!!!!!
Need we not wonder further why Wagner wrote the music that he did!)
;-)
:D
JB
Shell, I see your comments here and it’s funy that just two days ago I saw your information somewhere on my long journey to find the perfect frequency for the healing frequency pendants I make that actually work and I’m helping many with astonishing results. Dangerous to me though because what I do and they do is underground illegal so to say. Could get me kills but I’m always helping cure people of diseases ow for 16 years and always trying to develop an easier way for all because really all are sick and the sick need easy lol. But anyway your findings fascinated me and I felt in tune with it 😂. I did make one of your frequencies and it seems good so far but. Can’t say it’s the one yet. I was having great results with one based upon 10Hz because I get all my stuff downloaded to my mind from someone or something much wiser and greater than me and I know that one is amazing and some others also I’ve made over the last year that I’ve literally worked on 24/7/365. I’m determined to set the world free all my life like a complete nut because I care for all and yes all.. even the enemies in life I care about and know if they weren’t sick there’d no longer be anyone’s enemy with all I seen and learned on this long agonizing journey of mine.

I’m going to test the other numbers you have because it seems you may be into something. My searching on the number 10 I was using already led me to find you. I knew 10 was something important just based upon I found all things are what I call scriptures and truth hidden in plain sight that people just never saw something great hidden there in front of their eyes. What gave me the number 10 was the saying the perfect ten. I’ve made these in 432, 528 and virtually all numbers anyone could mention and the 528 is really good but not my best finding as of today, 432 didn’t do much that I could notice but I do believe it’s somthi important.

From my perspective so far on my quest I believe all tunings are of great value but not when they are singled out . Alone they are incomplete I’m seeing. Nature and the United has and used them all and I don’t see people focusing on this fact based upon unity and not separation as I myself think and live. I wish we all did instead of what was see here where allot of comments are to just prove a self right and another wrong. This again is a division. What I see is that all are right and all are wrong because non have learned t piece all options and observances together to make all complete and therefore all most perfectly right and no longer each of us being but yet only a half truth or partial truth and in that all are wrong.

Rich G I’m just curious why you didn’t touch mr mic drops comment...... Erk Etn ?
Rich G
JB,
I'm not sure what you feel I should have touched in Erk Etn's comments?
For one thing, this isn't the centerpiece of my life, and I've already said plenty here, so it's not my intent or purpose to respond to everything. Further, I didn't see anything of great significance in his post.

But since you brought it up.....
Should I have corrected his math? 6 x 6 = 36, not 72.

Traditionally, there are four tetrachords, not six. But one can also make five of them. But what is the sixth one? C, Db, E double flat(?), F....?? Is that it, a double flatted note? And then if so, you are going to call that a scale form using that as the first tetrachord with the 2nd step sharped tetrachord on top?
Thus:
C, Db, Ebb, F, G, A#, B, C. ....which now has five half-steps in a row from A# to Ebb. What "scale form" is this called?

And then also, we've left out the Lydian scale, all twelve of them, using the definition Erk Etn is using of five half steps per tetrachord - since the first tetrachord of the Lydian scale covers six half steps.
And we've also left out the Hungarian Minor scale which also uses the sharped 4th, covering six half steps, not five.
...and there are more....

Maybe everyone should endeavor to do their own more thorough and proper research before they post - and certainly not rely on me to do it!

When you are playing with 6's and 12's you're likely to hit on 432's. And that is supposed to "mean something"? Supposed to be "evidence" of something grand and mystical? It really isn't. And besides, it's just numbers. Sound waves are not numbers - we only use arbitrary number system measurements to identify them but they aren't actually numerical phenomena.

I used to have a friend who lived on the 6th floor at 12 Sixth St.....if only I had realized at the time that she was living in 432! :O
GP
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550830718302763
chrischeib
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299443456
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323659919
Maitri
insightful perspective about a frequency of sound that might have cosmic possibilities. A Positive takeaway is to acknowledge the fact that there could be be other frequencies which we are yet to comprehend and there's abundance of energy to explore. Can be realized while performing a cymatics experiment that has been explored to a range of 4000+ frequencies forming different shapes. Courtesy: Nigel Stanford.
The entire universe is made up of vibrating particles and we are yet not completely there.


Want to join the discussion?

Create an account or login to get started!