आप अपनी परियोजना स्टूडियो के लिए छोटे मॉनिटर्स क्यों विचार करना चाहिए, भाग 2

In part two (the final part) of this mini-series, Shane Berry looks at Hi-Fi vs. nearfield monitors and the pros and cons of adding a subwoofer to your project studio speaker setup.  

में भाग एक , मैं औसत बेडरूम / परियोजना स्टूडियो में छोटे वक्ताओं होने के व्यावहारिक लाभ खत्म हो जाना।

इस भाग में मैं खत्म हो जाएंगे कुछ, प्रकाश, गैर गणित, छोटे से कमरे में ध्वनिक मुद्दों, हाई-फाई nearfield वक्ताओं बनाम, निगरानी और भावना बास, और अंत में, पेशेवरों पर स्पर्श और एक subwoofer जोड़ने के विपक्ष के बीच का अंतर अपनी स्थापना के लिए।

कोई वास्तव में, सभी उत्साहित हो रही है

आप आम तौर पर इसे संभाल करने के लिए घन मात्रा does not है कि एक कमरे में बहुत ज्यादा ध्वनि ऊर्जा डाल करना चाहते हैं न। कक्ष अनुपात शारीरिक रूप से कुछ आवृत्तियों के व्यवहार को प्रभावित करती है और पैदा करेगा खड़े तरंगों उन आयामों को (कमरे मोड) रिश्तेदार।

Fig 1. Small rooms are notorious for bass build up in the form of standing waves.

छवि 1. छोटे कमरों में बास के लिए खड़े तरंगों के रूप में निर्माण कुख्यात रहे हैं।

इस कमरे में ही आप क्या सुनना करने के लिए अवांछित को बढ़ा देता है और कटौती के लिए कहते हैं कि इसका मतलब है, और कहा कि सही निगरानी के लिए उल्टा है।

कैसे और कहा कि ऐसा क्यों होता है इस लेख के दायरे में नहीं है, एक छोटे से कमरे में बड़ा वक्ताओं डाल, कहने के लिए पर्याप्त कम अंत में प्रमुख समस्या पैदा कर रहा है। स्पीकर के पास सीमाओं की वजह से हस्तक्षेप है कि अध्यक्ष सीमा हस्तक्षेप प्रतिक्रिया (एसबीआईआर), दीवारों की तरह, फर्श और ceilingwill भी सुनने की स्थिति में रचनात्मक और विनाशकारी हस्तक्षेप के कारण। (चित्र 2 देखें)

Fig 2. Wave cancellation due to Speaker Boundary Interference.

अध्यक्ष सीमा हस्तक्षेप की वजह से चित्र 2. वेव रद्द।

सही ढंग से रखा छोटे निकट क्षेत्र की निगरानी के साथ, एक हिस्से में कहा गया है, जब आप पहली बार चालकों से प्रत्यक्ष ध्वनि सुनने के लिए अपनी क्षमता में वृद्धि। तुम भी सीमित स्थान के साथ छोटे कमरे के लिए आदर्श अपने पूरे सुनने की स्थिति, साथ पीछे की दीवार के करीब हो सकता है।

छोटे वक्ताओं के साथ कम ऊर्जा का कमरा, एसबीआईआर, कक्ष मोड, जल्दी प्रतिबिंब और reverb कुछ हद तक कम हो रहे हैं में धकेल दिया जा रहा है, और आप एक और अधिक सटीक सुन अनुभव हासिल करेंगे।

बेशक, कमरे में निहित ध्वनिक समस्याओं जादुई गायब नहीं होगा, लेकिन एक छोटे कमरे में छोटे वक्ताओं निश्चित रूप से आवश्यकता से अधिक ऊर्जा के साथ समस्याग्रस्त आवृत्तियों फ़ीड नहीं होगा।

यह एक के पास क्षेत्र की निगरानी होने की जरूरत है? क्या छोटे हाई-फाई वक्ताओं का एक सेट के बारे में?

आप जूते बक्से की एक जोड़ी में 3 इंच ट्वीटर माउंट और आपको लगता है कि सेटअप की कमियों को पता है themas पर लंबे मिश्रण, और सही ढंग से क्षतिपूर्ति कर सकते हैं सकता है।

Fig 3. Show Box Speakers

3 चित्र जूता बॉक्स वक्ताओं

यह आसान हालांकि अपनी नौकरी कर देगा? वैसे यह इस तरह से रखा, तकनीकी रूप से यह एक प्लास्टिक के टब में अटलांटिक पार करने के लिए पंक्ति संभव है

अधिकांश निम्न और मध्य दूरी की हाई-फाई वक्ताओं पेशेवर के पास मैदान पर नज़र रखता है, की तुलना में ध्वनिक, अलग ढंग से प्रदर्शन करते हैं। हाई-फाई वक्ताओं उत्पादन पर ध्वनि बराबर है और मैकेनिकल डिजाइन और मनो चालें का उपयोग मनभावन आवृत्तियों पर बल तैयार कर रहे हैं।

यह आम तौर पर बहुत अच्छा लग रहा है, क्योंकि यह आरामदायक सुनने के लिए बहुत अच्छा है, लेकिन आप संगीत के मिश्रण के लिए, विश्लेषणात्मक वक्ताओं के इन प्रकार के उपयोग करने का प्रयास करते हैं, तो आप आवृत्तियों स्पीकर से ही जोड़ा जा रहा है के लिए क्षतिपूर्ति करेगा, स्रोत सामग्री में मौजूद आवृत्तियों नहीं कि । यह आपके घोला जा सकता है शायद अन्य साउंड सिस्टम के लिए अच्छी तरह से अनुवाद नहीं होगा कि इसका मतलब है।

यही कारण है कि (में) प्रसिद्ध YAMAHA NS-10s वास्तव में हाई-फाई वक्ताओं रहे हैं, ने कहा, लेकिन वे कर रहे एक खुश विसंगति, और शासन के लिए सबसे निश्चित रूप से एक अपवाद।

लेकिन मुझे लगता है कि बास, आदमी की जरूरत है!

यह आम तौर पर सुनवाई और बास की निगरानी और यह भावना के बीच अंतर भेद करने के लिए एक अच्छा विचार है।

आप इसे महसूस कर सकते हैं, और यदि आप एक छोटे से कमरे में बैठे हैं, तो आप बाधाओं आप अपने टमटम आज रात के लिए नीचे मिश्रण कर रहे हैं संगीत में कमरे में ही में मुख्य रूप से मौजूद हैं और ऐसा नहीं है कि एक मजबूत लहर महसूस कर रहे हैं। , आप महसूस करते हैं कि आप जब आप अपने स्टूडियो में अनुभवी कि कम अंत शक्ति के साथ आगे की पंक्ति में सभी लोगों से दूर जाँघिया उड़ाने की उम्मीद, डांस फ्लोर पर ड्रॉप, अपने आतंक के लिए, अपने ट्रैक पतली और शक्तिहीन, और भीड़ लग रहा है undies जगह में मजबूती बनी हुई हैं।

यह सोचने के लिए आओ आप ज़ोर मात्रा पर यह जांच करने के लिए ट्रैक पम्पिंग के बाद नीचे सिर्फ एक छोटा सा बास चालू किया था, यह सब होने के बाद इस मिश्रण में थोड़ा बहुत ज़ोर था, और शायद आप EQ इसे नियंत्रित करने के लिए एक सा छुआ इसे बाहर की चिकनी, और अब आप लगभग पूरी तरह से करने के बजाय ट्रैक से हटा दिया है, बहुत देर हो चुकी, साकार कर रहे हैं।

बधाई हो, तुम सिर्फ अपने कमरे में नहीं स्रोत संगीत को मिलाया। बड़ा वक्ताओं मालिक द्वारा अधिक बास प्राप्त करने के लिए कोशिश कर रहा है कि वास्तव में आप के खिलाफ काम कर समाप्त होता है।

दूसरी ओर बास सुनवाई लिखित रूप में वर्णन करना कठिन है।

अच्छी तरह से चुना के साथ एक कमरे में, अच्छी तरह से वक्ताओं रखा (और आदर्श ध्वनिक रहें) बास बस है - वर्तमान - यदि आप इसे स्पष्ट रूप से सुन सकते हैं, तो आप यह चाहिए की कल्पना जहां यह बैठता है, और यह शहद की तरह कमरे से भर जाता है, लेकिन कभी नहीं पड़ा soundscape।

वह जोर संस्करणों में यह महसूस करने के लिए संभव है, लेकिन अपनी उपस्थिति भी कम मात्रा में, हमेशा मिश्रण के आराम करने के लिए आनुपातिक है।

उप करने के लिए है या नहीं, उप करने के लिए? बास सवाल है।

यदि आप एक बजट के लिए, अपने स्टूडियो में 1000 से अधिक एक छाया बास विस्तार होने पर सेट कर रहे हैं, तो आप दूर धुन करने के लिए आसान है और बड़ी दो तरह की निगरानी में से एक सेट की तुलना में स्थापित किया जाएगा कि छोटे निगरानी के एक पेशेवर सेट और एक उप प्राप्त कर सकते हैं । इस तर्क से, यह बड़े और बजट की तुलना में छोटे और समर्थक जाने के लिए और अधिक समझ में आता है।

Fig 4. Adding a subwoofer

चित्र 4. एक subwoofer जोड़ना

पेशेवरों:

एक समर्पित subwoofer के साथ आप इच्छित बास के स्तर को निर्धारित करने और वास्तव में बहुत कम अंत के कमरे में जोर दे रहा है कि कैसे पर नियंत्रण कर सकते हैं।

अधिकांश सभ्य सबवूफर एक काट आवृत्ति है और केवल (आमतौर पर 80 हर्ट्ज और से) एक निश्चित सीमा से ऊपर उपग्रहों आवृत्तियों फ़ीड, और यह वास्तव में उपग्रह वक्ताओं बेहतर प्रदर्शन में मदद करता होगा।

विपक्ष:

एक subwoofer एक कमरे में अनावश्यक बास जानकारी की एक पूरी बहुत जोड़ सकते हैं और इसे हल की तुलना में अधिक से अधिक समस्याओं का कारण बन सकता है।

एक सभ्य उप जोड़ना लागत दोगुना हो जाता है।

एक अच्छा उप तुम भी इसके लिए जगह है, एक बड़ी बात है?

निष्कर्ष:

छोटे से कमरे और बजट के लिए छोटे वक्ताओं, व्यावहारिक और वैज्ञानिक, आर्थिक रूप से, कई स्तरों पर काम करते हैं। क्या आप फिर भी, आप समाधान की तुलना में अधिक ध्वनि समस्याओं को जोड़ने का खतरा रहता है, बड़े वक्ताओं के साथ जाने के लिए और, उचित स्तर पर अपने कमरे के आकार के सापेक्ष निगरानी सकता है।

यह वास्तव में आप एक छोटे से कमरे में काम कर रहे हैं और अधिक समझ, बल्कि बड़े और बजट की तुलना में, छोटे और समर्थक जाना पड़ता है।

AskVideo पर ध्वनिकी और स्टूडियो उत्पादन के बारे में अधिक जानें।

Shane is an SAE certified audio engineer, sound designer, composer, and audio consultant. Working with Tokyo based media agency Ultrasupernew and creative game agency Playbrain, he creates audio for TV, music and sound for product launch events, and web audio content for major multinational firms such as Red Bull, SuperCell, Heineke... Read More

Discussion

Jason Scott
Any thoughts on the M-Audio M3-8 vs NS10M's for a small room.
Shane Berry
Hi Jason,

Cost wise:

It is cheaper to invest in the M3-8s at +/- $350 each, as opposed to NS-10s at about $500 to $900 a pair used. The NS-10s are not active, so you will also need a good amplifier with a suitable slew rate for audio work. The Alesis RA150 comes close enough on a budget at $200, so even with entry level amplification the NS-10s are a more expensive investment.

The M3-8s are three way (with an inline speaker design) so, for the price, they seem to be quite interesting. Professional three way designs will usually set you back thousands of dollars.

If you are keen on three way systems check out Event 2030s. Per pair they’re about the same price range as used Yamahas with a cheap amp, and the main cone is 7.1 inches, I would give those a listen too.

Size wise:

The M3-8s have an 8” driver so they’re probably too big for a small room (as set out by the criteria laid out in the articles).

Sound wise:

Tread lightly; the NS-10 are not nice. I worked on a few pairs in Tokyo and in Belgrade, and one of the best things about working on NS-10s is switching to another set of speakers. In other words, NS-10s are usually the “other” speakers. Of course it is important to have accurate monitoring, but it is also important to enjoy listening to your speakers, especially in a home studio set up. I have yet to find anyone who enjoys listening to NS-10s - unless you find pleasure in a million sonic kittens scratching incessantly at your eardrums. It’s cute at first....

Other considerations:

NS-10s are aging and require a certain degree of TLC. It is quite easy to blow the tweeter, and while it is possible to get parts, it can be a hassle you don’t really need.

Pairing the NS-10 with a decent amp can become expensive and a rabbit hole sucking time and money.

Active monitors are (in theory) perfectly matched with their drivers and likely to be more robust than a set of used speakers from the 80’s.

Conclusion:

Of course the whole “which speaker?” question is subjective, but remember to trust your ears and not the industry hype. Make sure to audition any speakers you want to buy, in a good environment, or even better, on trial in your own space, and when you hear them, the right set for you will be very obvious.
Jake
Awesome mini-series! I definitely regret going with Yamaha HS8s. They are way too large for my tiny room. Any recommendations on smaller, more "pro" near-fields?
Shane Berry
Jake,

Thanks for the comment.

Have no fear on the HS8 purchase, they are great speakers, just don’t get a sub woofer. ;)

I skimmed through the HS8 user manual and you’re in luck. There is a switch on the back called “room control”, try the two settings. The switch compensates for bass build-up when you must place the monitor near a wall; the three-way switch provides 0, -2 or -4 dB attenuation below 500 Hz. This should assist, somewhat, in “bringing the speaker under control” in a smaller room. I was wary of room control on my speakers (Adam A7s with front facing ports), but attenuating the bass in my room made a huge improvement. Remember, hearing the bass and feeling it are not necessarily the same, so see if using the controls makes a difference.

Recommended pro small speakers in no order or endorsement:

From personal experience - I own or have worked on these speakers.

Adam A3X
Genelec 8010AP
Focal CMS 5
Adam A7
Adam A7X

From hearsay - often mentioned in my circles or highly praised.

Event 20/20
Equator D5
PMC twotwo.5 / TB2S+ (Passive)
Jake
Thanks for the reply, Shane! I'll do some research on those monitors! But for now I'll do my best with the HS8s!
Rounik
Hi Jake... did you catch our recent review of the Les Paul Monitors? I personally heard them at NAMM and was blown away by the 4" versions. Matt Vanacoro goes into more details in this review:
http://askaudiomag.com/articles/review-gibson-les-paul-studio-monitors
Jake
I'll check out that review! I'm just really not a fan of the look of those at all, but if the quality is worth it I might consider them. Any idea how the Genelec 8020Cs compare?
Bill
Shane,
Any thoughts on the SubPac for small room low-end mixing?
Shane Berry
I haven't had the opportunity to try one in practice, so I can only go by the testimonials of some respectable techno producers like Dubfire and Richie Hawtin, who generally endorse high quality products that work as advertised. I have to say, I'm curious to hear the opinions of heavy weight mixers like Andy Wallace, or Andrew Scheps, et al, to gauge its usefulness outside of "mixing for clubs".

The SubPac is ideal for small spaces, in theory, because it bypasses room conditions entirely. Since it's physically touching the body it should be a very "tight" bass experience too. "Loosness" in bass response is often a problem in small rooms, even with higher end subs, not to mention minor bass anomalies from small ported monitors adding to the mess. This "loosness" tends to mask many issues going on "down there" and SubPac seems to address and rectify this.

There are also no phase issues to speak of except that, due to the Sub Pac being next to your body, the further you sit from your monitors the more likely you are to notice a delay between the audio and tactile response. Most producers would never notice anyway, especially in a small room.

Cost wise it equates to a low end sub woofer by Samson or Behringer, so if it works as well as claimed it would great investment. A decent sub starts at €500+ and fine sub is many time more expensive, and too large for small rooms anyway.

Sara Simms reviewed it here http://askaudiomag.com/articles/review-subpac-s2-feel-the-bass-wherever-you-sit and says it works well with many genres.

I hope this helps in some way.
HealthyGuy
Hello Shane,

Great article - I wish I'd read this many years ago! Below are the dimensions of the room I use for music:

Length - 375cm, Width - 280cm, Height - 210cm

I am currently using Adam P22A Monitors (discontinued), they have an 8.5 Inch Driver. I'm certain they are far too big for this room. When sitting in front of the Adams I can 't hear the bass but if I go to the back of the room the bass piles up and it seems flabby rather than tight and punchy. I suspect that any driver over 7 Inches is not going to work in this small room.

I am considering buying a much smaller pair of monitors. Could you recommend some? Or a combination of small monitors with a sub? I make Drum & Bass so bass is important but I don't need to listen to the music too loudly.

So far I've been looking at:

Yamaha HS5
Genelec 8010A (3 Inch) + 7050B (6.5 Inch) Sub
Genelec 8020A (4 Inch) + 7050B (6.5 Inch) Sub
Genelec 8030A (5 Inch) + 7050B (6.5 Inch) Sub
Adam A3X + Adam Sub 7
Adam A5X + Adam Sub 7

What do you think? Looking forward to your reply.

Thank you

HealthyGuy
Shane Berry
– Comment: Hello Shane, Great article -

Thanks HealthyGuy I hope it helped.

– Comment: I wish I'd read this many years ago!

Me too!

– Comment: Below are the dimensions of the room I use for music: Length - 375cm, Width - 280cm, Height - 210cm

At 22.05m3 you are in a typically small bedroom for sure. You would need to do actual measurements, but a back-of-the-napkin calculation shows you may have issues around 45 Hz and 90 Hz (F1# and F2#) and other troublesome modes at 61Hz and 122Hz (B1 and B2).

Dial these frequencies into a tone generator and walk around your room. You should hear them swell and fade as you walk through the nodes. Knowing which frequencies are causing issues means we can target them with speaker placement and acoustic treatment.

No speaker or room EQ will change the physics of your room I am afraid. Even bass traps are no guarantee, unless they are very well built resonant type focused on the range below 250Hz.

– Comment: I am currently using Adam P22A Monitors (discontinued), they have an 8.5 Inch Driver.

Awesome speakers. I’ve heard the P11s in a very well tuned room in Belgrade and they are a fantastic range. Hang on to them if you can.

– Comment: I'm certain they are far too big for this room. When sitting in front of the Adams I can't hear the bass but if I go to the back of the room the bass piles up and it seems flabby rather than tight and punchy.

8.5 inches is large for this room volume indeed.

You do not mention any room treatment or speaker placement, so I am going to say before investing in new speakers try to find a more optimal position for your speakers or listening position. Do not underestimate small movements to or away from the wall directly behind your speakers.

What you are experiencing is boundary effect, technically called Speaker-Boundary Interference Response (SBIR).

From your description you might be sitting in a naturally occurring null that could be exaggerated by SBIR.

Move yourself and your speakers backwards or forwards and see if you get different results. The (very basic) idea is to push the bass dip caused by SBIR into a higher frequency range which is easier to manage with acoustic treatment. Or find a place to sit where the the null is not so obvious. It’s a dance between the two.

If you have limited space just make sure that at the very least you cannot see either side of the speaker cabinet from your listening position – that is, if you turn your head and look at each speaker you see only their faces. The ideal height for monitors is tweeters at ear height when seated or around 121cm (4ft), and make sure you have line of sight to your drivers.

Since the P22A have front firing ports you can get them quite close to the wall behind them.

I went through the P22A manual and see that they have a control panel on the rear.

It seems counterintuitive, but you may want to turn the bass down on them. By how much can only be determined by experimentation, and definitely attenuate the closer you get to the back wall to offset proximity effect. I own a pair of Adam A7s and it took me years to use the rear control panel. I was always wanted to keep the output as “flat” as possible for “purity” blah blah. But when I did attenuate some of the bass and push the speakers further back, the room and bass started to behave a little better.

EQing on the speakers is not going to solve any major issues outright, but it might help at the very least.

You may have heard it before, but half your speaker budget should go to treating your room acoustically. A couple of DIY bass traps will go along way, and are far cheaper (and effective) than a shiny new subwoofer.

In a small room bass trapping should ideally go on the wall and room corners directly behind you.

– Comment: I suspect that any driver over 7 Inches is not going to work in this small room. I am considering buying a much smaller pair of monitors.

To be clear, smaller speakers will not solve any inherent acoustical issues within a room, they are just less likely to aggravate them as easily. And smaller speakers have issues of their own especially with directionality in the midrange which can cause coloration in the low mids if placed improperly.

– Comment: Could you recommend some? Or a combination of small monitors with a sub? I make Drum & Bass so bass is important but I don't need to listen to the music too loudly.

My recommendations follow below, but first a note on what it is you are after.

I mentioned earlier that I heard Adam P11s in a well tuned room (alongside PMC LB1s) and I noticed that at decent standard monitoring levels I could hear the bass, but was not necessarily feeling it.

That was very ear opening.

I have a DJ’s ear so I have been able to carry that imprint of “how bass sounds in a properly treated room” into other spaces, and almost always, shitty bass comes from an attempt to feel it rather than hear it.

A great reference track for this concept is the track by Rebecca Pidgeon - Spanish Harlem. According to Bob Katz (who mastered the album) in a properly treated room the first four notes of the opening bassline should all be clearly audible and evenly balanced. If any one or all of the notes disappears or jumps out of the mix, you have issues at those frequencies. (I cannot link to his webpage, it is currently listed as a dangerous site, but do look up his notes on this track, very interesting.)

If at all possible find a local studio/mastering house with a properly treated listening room and ask if you can hear a few of your own tracks and reference tracks in it. Pay for the time if need be, but make sure the room is as good as it can be before forking over money that could go to your own acoustic treatment.

Once you have heard what a properly treated room should sound like it takes away a ton of guess work.

– Comment: So far I've been looking at:

Yamaha HS5
Genelec 8010A (3 Inch) + 7050B (6.5 Inch) Sub
Genelec 8020A (4 Inch) + 7050B (6.5 Inch) Sub
Genelec 8030A (5 Inch) + 7050B (6.5 Inch) Sub
Adam A3X + Adam Sub 7
Adam A5X + Adam Sub 7

What do you think?

I can tell you from first hand experience a subwoofer creates more issues than it solves, unless you are treating the room accurately, and know how to place and calibrate it properly.

That said, once set up properly it is worth the effort.

I actually have two of the speaker set-ups you are considering. I’m currently using Adam A3Xs paired with an Adam Sub8, and I have a pair of Genelec 8010As. (my Adam A7s are in storage unfortunately.)

I love them both.

The 8010s are the reason I wrote the article. They have literally been a game changer. And this is coming from I die hard Adam fan.

I can tell you with absolute confidence that in terms of bass production in a well treated small room, the 8010s on their own are serious competition for Adam A3x’s with a sub.

The 8010s impress me every day.

When a DJ friend from Japan (who knows my old studio in Tokyo with the A7s) dropped by my space in Paris he literally said holy sh*t when I turned the 8010s up.

Here is the catch. Genelecs are very well known for having a “sound” to their pro family range and the 8010s are very definitely Genelecs. They are fast and forward speakers, tending to rush a bit, which many producers find too colored and “nice”.

Another catch is that in a bigger room the 8010s lose their power quite rapidly, the A3X’s however don’t. I actually have the A3Xs in my lounge from time to time (minus the sub) to reference mixes there because the Adams perform so well in the bigger space.

The Adam A3Xs are far less nuanced than the 8010s. I am sure your P22A’s will school the A3Xs any day of the week in detail and depth.

Adam’s in general are far more clinical and flat than other speakers, but that can come at a cost to depth and spatial details.

Compared to the 8010s the Adam A3Xs are flat as a board and somewhat lifeless as a result. I have found the 8010s to breathe a bit more and carry a far more sophisticated sound overall, but that can be overly flattering and misleading mix wise.

The Adam Sub8 doesn’t pair very well with the 8010s, it just can’t keep up with them, and frankly in my room the 8010s by themselves are fine without the sub. I am very keen to hear what the 8010s sound like paired with a Genelec sub.

I would switch to a Genelec 8010A + 7050B sub setup in a heartbeat., but that is only because I am doing more post production and film based audio, which is where the Genelecs excel.

The A3Xs with the Sub 8 is a well oiled machine, coherent and well tethered, the crossover is much easier to find and they exist in the same family of sound - flat and unrushed. The Sub 7 is also a good pairing with the A3Xs according to a close friend who uses that set up.

In conclusion, seriously look into maximising your current gear. A new set of speakers – even smaller ones – will not solve any inherent acoustical or speaker placement issues. Treating the room will also be a much cheaper option if you can do it yourself.

Honestly, if your current speakers were not P22A’s I would be more inclined to encourage upgrading, but I don’t think you will get “better” results with speakers that are frankly a step down from what you already have. (Unless they are in bad condition, then by all means get new speakers!)

I am not endorsing any one product over another here. All speakers have pros and cons, and the whole subject is very – er – subjective. Very subjective. This is just my experience based on my room, which is slightly bigger than yours.

If at all possible, demo the speakers at home first. See which work and if they actually make a big enough difference in the end to warrant an expenditure. Jumping from Adams to Genelecs is also quite a leap sonically so that also needs to be taken into consideration.

The real key is in the conscious knowledge that your speakers are more than likely too big for your room, and that knowledge can be used to work for you instead of against you without spending extra cash.
HealthyGuy
Thank you very much for your detailed reply Shane. FYI my room has no acoustic treatment but am thinking of investing in the future.

To be honest, I’m fed up with the Adam P22A’s and will probably sell them. I made a mistake buying them. They were advertised as a “nearfield/midfield” monitor, I believe that the new Adam AX8’s are their successors and they are also advertised as a “nearfield/midfield”. If I position them near the rear wall facing into the room the sweet spot is quite far back - but then my back is against the wall due to the small room. It’s like they are projecting the sound way past me and into the space behind me.

Ideally I would like "proper" Nearfields (not Nearfield/Midfields as advertised) and have them near the rear wall and the sweet spot is in the middle of the room (not the back of the room).

I live in a block of flats so I don't really need the high volume they are capable of - it will annoy my neighbours.

You mentioned that the Adam AX3 would be a step down from the P22A’s. I believe the “AX” series are the successors to the now discontinued “P” series so hopefully the only real difference would be in the lows. Hopefully the sub will compensate for that.

As you advised in your article above, a smaller pair of monitors could be better in this situation. So to rephrase my question – given the dimensions of the room and assuming I no longer have the Adam P22A's, out of the setups I've mentioned(or ones I've not mentioned) would you go for? (PMC and ATC etc are out of my price range though)

Also, why did you go for the Sub 8 over the Sub 7?

Thanks for your time Shane. Looking forward to your reply.

Cheers :)
Shane Berry
HealthyGuy

– Comment:

Thank you very much for your detailed reply Shane.

– Answer:

No problem, good to get the old noodle thinking!

– Comment:

FYI my room has no acoustic treatment but am thinking of investing in the future.

– Answer:

Highly recommend, DIY is cheap and effective. But don’t underestimate careful speaker placement and symmetry in the room.

– Comment:

To be honest, I’m fed up with the Adam P22A’s and will probably sell them. I made a mistake
buying them.

– Answer:

Haha, fair enough. I always start with the work-with-what-you’ve-got-and-save-some-cash route. ;) I hope you can get a good price for them.

– Comment:

They were advertised as a “nearfield/midfield” monitor, I believe that the new Adam AX8’s are their successors and they are also advertised as a “nearfield/midfield”. If I position them near the rear wall facing into the room the sweet spot is quite far back - but then my back is against the wall due to the small room. It’s like they are projecting the sound way past me and into the space behind me.

– Answer:

Yes anything above 7 inches starts to move a lot of air. Yamaha NS10s are 7 inches and are still considered essential near field monitors.

I came across a thread online where a guy with 8 inch speakers was complaining of the same situation as you, and he was in a much bigger room with DIY treatment.

So 8 inches is an issue even in bigger rooms.

I feel your pain, especially given that you are working in a genre that is so bass centric.

– Comment:

Ideally I would like "proper" Nearfields (not Nearfield/Midfields as advertised) and have them near the rear wall and the sweet spot is in the middle of the room (not the back of the room).

I live in a block of flats so I don't really need the high volume they are capable of - it will annoy my neighbours.

– Answer:

Working at a moderate level is good and healthy. In your room anything above 70 dB SPL would be messy anyway. When you get the new speakers look into calibrating them properly too so that you are always working at the same reference volume.

– Comment:

You mentioned that the Adam AX3 would be a step down from the P22A’s. I believe the “AX” series are the successors to the now discontinued “P” series so hopefully the only real difference would be in the lows. Hopefully the sub will compensate for that.

– Answer:

Yes, the Adam A3X are a step down (up?) spec wise 60Hz as opposed to the P11A’s 42 Hz, but that is what you want in a way.

The P11As will also be a fair bit more neutral and linear down to the low end. The A3Xs, like most small cabinet speakers, are slighlty hyped in the low end.

They are excellent speakers for the price though. I wholeheartedly recommend them, but would stay away from A5Xs. I found the bass on the A3Xs much more controlled and well tuned. They’re inherently colored by front facing ports, but not overly so, whereas the A5Xs were, to me, the most hyped and colored Adam model I have heard.


– Comment:

As you advised in your article above, a smaller pair of monitors could be better in this situation. So to rephrase my question – given the dimensions of the room and assuming I no longer have the Adam P22A's, out of the setups I've mentioned(or ones I've not mentioned) would you go for? (PMC and ATC etc are out of my price range though)

Also, why did you go for the Sub 8 over the Sub 7?

– Answer:

I can only speak after speakers that I know and use, so I will not recommend outside of my immediate experience.

Furthermore, since you are familiar with the Adam sound, I would happily recommend the A3Xs paired with a Sub 7.

A close colleague and friend of mine has that combo and he only has great things to say about it. He works in a small untreated space primarily on sound design and the set up works very well for him.

The Sub 7 also has an optional input for a foot switch so that you can bypass the sub – a feature sorely (and strangely) missing from the Sub 8.

I have a sub 8 with A3Xs only because I am working towards a 5.1 system with three A3Xs and my A7s (not dolby standard, but it will have to do!).

Also, I know the Sub 8 pairs with Adam A7s very well from another colleague’s old studio set up in Tokyo. Obviously the Sub 8 has more oomph, but that causes more problems than it solves.

The cons of the A3Xs over the A5Xs is that the A3X’s have no room control options except for tweeter levels. So placement becomes very important since the bass cannot be controlled manually.

Genelec 8010s with a 7050B sub would also be a good option, but Genelec is a different beast tonality wise, and not to everyone’s taste. They are clinical, but in a very upfront and punchy way, many engineers find it too much. The switch from ribbon tweeters to metal dome is also quite a change.

If you plan to branch out into film sound or post production then the Genelecs are the way to go, excellent for voice over mixing and scoring. In fact I really wish I could set up a 5.1 Genelec rig and then mix music on the Adams.

One issue with the 8010s is that they are hard to calibrate. They have no volume control, only a -10dB /+4dB switch and some rudimentary room EQ options, so some kind of monitor controller is almost essential. They are also not very well matched, almost 1 dB difference between the two I have.

The Adams have volume and on off controls on the front panel which I have always liked as a design choice, and it makes them easy to setup and calibrate.

In this price range these two set ups are tied for quality and value for money. They are entirely different beasts tonally, and I would urge, if at all possible, to demo them before investing.

Maybe don’t get a sub straight away.

If The Sub 8 had a foot switch I would be bypassing it more often than using it. In fact the next monitor control set up I am looking into specifically allows bypassing the sub, and I cannot wait.

The reason I don’t bypass the Sub 8 right now is that is it a pain in the ass to calibrate properly, so once it is set up, I don’t really want to mess with the settings. But when I am able mute it, I will do so more often than not.

– Comment:

Thanks for your time Shane. Looking forward to your reply.

– Answer:

No problem, I hope this helps a bit in your endeavours!

Do let us know what you decide, and what kind of difference it makes, so we can all continue to learn from this experience.

– Comment: Cheers :)

– Answer: All the best.
roman
Greetings from Russia! Why!? Just WHY? i got to this kind of article now and not a few years ago... everything happens for a reason) i guess(hope)). I was struggling with my EVE SC207.... they are too big for my bedroom. i even started hating listening to the PRO mixed music on them. I always thought 'damn, there must be something wrong". You turn the volume down, you hear nothing..You turn it up- too bassy... and at last, the guy brought to me his demo and he mixed it on ordinary PC speakers and balance was better then on my tracks. I thought i was useless... But then i borrowed little speakers from my neighbour and was SHOCKED! it was easier to balance a track on them and i didnot try to mix and master and produce at the same time. because I heard just what i needed to hear( sure, its a cheap chinese crappy speakers but still). Then googled and found your article and it proved my point. its so &^%&^% obvious! Going to get a genelec 8020 dpm now. thanx and all the best!
mcphable
Excellent article! I’m hoping you have a minute to advise on my setup. -- I’ve been trying my best with my JBL LSR-305’s, using DIY bass & broadband traps in my small room with my listening position around 35% from the front wall (10.5ft by 11.5ft with an 8ft ceiling). The best setup result I’ve tested still has issues. I get a -6dB dip at 80Hz, that goes up to +7dB at 150Hz, then back down to -4dB @ 270Hz, back up to +5dB @ 380Hz, back down -4dB from 550-750Hz, and then it’s pretty flat up to 16kHz or so. I test/use Sonarworks and REW but this seems about as good as the room can get without enabling the Sonarworks correction or spending lots of cash on tuned treatment.

I produce/mix electronic music (primarily) and see so many of the top producers/mixers using Genelec 8040’s, which makes me think there’s something to the Genelec sound that I should embrace, even if my room size necessitates a smaller version. And so my question is what size woofer should I get for my size room with those dips/resonances? Since I have 5” LSR-305’s now, would Genelec 8020’s at 4” (and add the recommended 7050 sub in the future) be a big enough woofer/quality change to make it worth the money OR is my money better spent on 8010’s at 3” (and add the recommended 7040 sub a bit sooner)? OR would you go with a different brand/setup altogether?

I really hope you have a minute to advise. Thanks!

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